1 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:09,500 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:27,730 --> 00:00:23,770 you're listening to the skeptic zone I'm 3 00:00:31,030 --> 00:00:27,740 Brian Dunning from sceptile com hello 4 00:00:33,729 --> 00:00:31,040 and welcome this is episode 115 for the 5 00:00:35,620 --> 00:00:33,739 31st of December Brian Dunning here 6 00:00:37,869 --> 00:00:35,630 filling in for Richard Saunders who's on 7 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:37,879 assignment in San Francisco of course 8 00:00:43,570 --> 00:00:40,250 what some people call on assignment 9 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:43,580 others of us call vacation you've ever 10 00:00:48,160 --> 00:00:45,410 seen Richard Saunders in a speedo you'd 11 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:48,170 probably lie about it too today we're 12 00:00:52,869 --> 00:00:50,530 featuring interviews by the one and only 13 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:52,879 Maynard including the brothers behind 14 00:00:59,170 --> 00:00:56,330 the placebo band a fine product buy 15 00:01:01,299 --> 00:00:59,180 yours today and we're very pleased to 16 00:01:04,060 --> 00:01:01,309 bring you one of the geniuses behind the 17 00:01:06,130 --> 00:01:04,070 skeptics guide to the universe and from 18 00:01:07,719 --> 00:01:06,140 in biggin books we have one of my best 19 00:01:11,170 --> 00:01:07,729 friends because he sold so many of my 20 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:11,180 books for me Warren bonnet unfortunately 21 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:13,250 Maynard also interviewed me and because 22 00:01:18,370 --> 00:01:15,890 we were kinda short on content we had to 23 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:18,380 regretfully include it in today's 24 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:21,170 skeptic zone and following that we have 25 00:01:27,550 --> 00:01:24,290 our favorite person Rachel Dunlop with 26 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:27,560 dr. rachy reports this week dr. ray 27 00:01:31,870 --> 00:01:29,210 cheese taking a look into the recent 28 00:01:34,090 --> 00:01:31,880 findings by the TGA the Therapeutic 29 00:01:36,399 --> 00:01:34,100 Goods Administration in Australia and 30 00:01:39,219 --> 00:01:36,409 what you can do to help fight quackery 31 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:39,229 in pharmacies I'll be back at the end of 32 00:01:42,099 --> 00:01:40,490 the show with a little bit of news about 33 00:01:44,499 --> 00:01:42,109 some things that I've been up to that I 34 00:01:46,779 --> 00:01:44,509 think you might find interesting but for 35 00:01:48,969 --> 00:01:46,789 now sit back and grab yourself a bottle 36 00:01:51,580 --> 00:01:48,979 of Night Train oh wait this is the 37 00:02:09,800 --> 00:01:51,590 skeptic zone grab yourself a glass of 38 00:02:14,970 --> 00:02:12,630 I'm here with some real scientists were 39 00:02:16,620 --> 00:02:14,980 you from sir I'm from the CSIRO i work 40 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:16,630 at north road right now it's obviously 41 00:02:19,380 --> 00:02:18,010 pretty rough and tumble game there 42 00:02:20,850 --> 00:02:19,390 because you've broken your arm yeah 43 00:02:23,220 --> 00:02:20,860 actually I just had some surgery on my 44 00:02:25,530 --> 00:02:23,230 hand too much typing as we can see here 45 00:02:26,670 --> 00:02:25,540 just look at the crush that's going on 46 00:02:29,430 --> 00:02:26,680 at the skeptics guide to the universe 47 00:02:31,170 --> 00:02:29,440 the novella boys and the cult of rebecca 48 00:02:33,150 --> 00:02:31,180 watson is just going off over there is 49 00:02:34,830 --> 00:02:33,160 no it is it is well they're superstars 50 00:02:36,449 --> 00:02:34,840 aren't they really Stephens amazing he's 51 00:02:38,490 --> 00:02:36,459 like a robot isn't he's just like a 52 00:02:40,110 --> 00:02:38,500 walking encyclopedia right I love it 53 00:02:41,910 --> 00:02:40,120 when I listen to any justice those 54 00:02:43,830 --> 00:02:41,920 things which cut right to the core you 55 00:02:45,990 --> 00:02:43,840 know as well and also it's so refreshing 56 00:02:47,699 --> 00:02:46,000 to actually get really a decent answer 57 00:02:50,010 --> 00:02:47,709 to things and actually hear the facts 58 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:50,020 presented a decent way so much of the 59 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:51,610 stuff around these days is not it's so 60 00:02:55,170 --> 00:02:53,050 difficult to get the real facts without 61 00:02:57,060 --> 00:02:55,180 I don't know filtering coloring whatever 62 00:02:59,070 --> 00:02:57,070 do get kind of pissed off of the way the 63 00:03:01,650 --> 00:02:59,080 media like myself cover stuff because we 64 00:03:03,630 --> 00:03:01,660 don't know what you're really doing and 65 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:03,640 we have to make up words that explain it 66 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:04,930 and often we don't get it right do with 67 00:03:08,460 --> 00:03:06,970 the media I'm not a scientist I'm just a 68 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:08,470 smartass but I totally agree with what 69 00:03:11,250 --> 00:03:10,090 you just said you know it's like you 70 00:03:13,050 --> 00:03:11,260 don't have to be a scientist to realize 71 00:03:14,759 --> 00:03:13,060 that there's a lot of crap and there's a 72 00:03:16,740 --> 00:03:14,769 lot of false middle ground and 73 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:16,750 everything like that just just getting 74 00:03:19,860 --> 00:03:18,610 the straight story is that so much to us 75 00:03:22,020 --> 00:03:19,870 is half the stuff they say about you 76 00:03:23,580 --> 00:03:22,030 wrong we do so many amazing things and I 77 00:03:24,990 --> 00:03:23,590 so much more that can be said about 78 00:03:26,610 --> 00:03:25,000 their achievements and I think there's a 79 00:03:29,130 --> 00:03:26,620 real problem with communicating all the 80 00:03:30,660 --> 00:03:29,140 different things that we've done so I 81 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:30,670 was just showing today I would love to 82 00:03:35,009 --> 00:03:33,370 see more science news on just in the 83 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:35,019 normal media I think sometimes things 84 00:03:39,390 --> 00:03:37,330 are on my set deemed to be delivered to 85 00:03:40,890 --> 00:03:39,400 the lowest common denominator and if not 86 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:40,900 everyone will understand it then it 87 00:03:43,770 --> 00:03:42,610 shouldn't be reported well I think one 88 00:03:46,020 --> 00:03:43,780 of the problems is that they want to try 89 00:03:48,449 --> 00:03:46,030 and make it sexy and a lot of science is 90 00:03:50,460 --> 00:03:48,459 frankly difficult it's doing things over 91 00:03:52,140 --> 00:03:50,470 and over again to get a result and find 92 00:03:53,310 --> 00:03:52,150 out what works and most people haven't 93 00:03:55,319 --> 00:03:53,320 got the patience for that and they 94 00:03:56,670 --> 00:03:55,329 didn't go to uni so consequently they're 95 00:03:58,560 --> 00:03:56,680 going to be bored with it even solar 96 00:04:00,000 --> 00:03:58,570 power which is kind of exciting it's a 97 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:00,010 long process to get it to work properly 98 00:04:03,990 --> 00:04:02,170 a new invention I find really 99 00:04:07,050 --> 00:04:04,000 interesting as memory stirs that a new 100 00:04:09,060 --> 00:04:07,060 it's a major new technology in the 101 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:09,070 filter circuit design and it's going to 102 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:09,850 have 103 00:04:13,860 --> 00:04:12,610 huge implications but I don't I don't 104 00:04:15,420 --> 00:04:13,870 remember seeing it on the news anywhere 105 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:15,430 really yeah what was my phone smaller 106 00:04:19,620 --> 00:04:18,370 yet then yeah that was a yes and that's 107 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:19,630 the thing that could actually be 108 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:21,370 something that they could actually even 109 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:23,050 pitch I mean the technology now is 110 00:04:26,910 --> 00:04:24,490 really stunning compared to what it was 111 00:04:28,500 --> 00:04:26,920 10 years ago and popular culture is 112 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:28,510 disconnected from the science that keeps 113 00:04:31,590 --> 00:04:30,130 everything running and one what project 114 00:04:32,790 --> 00:04:31,600 what section you would not I have a 115 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:32,800 chemistry background but I'm only 116 00:04:36,420 --> 00:04:34,570 working in IT at the moment consider 117 00:04:38,310 --> 00:04:36,430 myself to be a scientist at heart and I 118 00:04:39,870 --> 00:04:38,320 love to keep across what all the 119 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:39,880 researchers are doing so there's some 120 00:04:47,670 --> 00:04:45,490 interesting stuff well it's a coffee 121 00:04:49,890 --> 00:04:47,680 break on day two here at Tom Australia 122 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:49,900 and we've got Daniel hi Daniel where you 123 00:04:53,370 --> 00:04:51,610 hear from i'm here from newcastle ah 124 00:04:56,010 --> 00:04:53,380 which sub over you from you from the 125 00:04:57,810 --> 00:04:56,020 much trouble day Callahan is it i am 126 00:05:00,150 --> 00:04:57,820 from the slightly dangerous but not 127 00:05:01,740 --> 00:05:00,160 disperse respectable hamilton north but 128 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:01,750 bill how you enjoying tam what are you 129 00:05:05,340 --> 00:05:03,130 getting out of it you've traveled all 130 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:05,350 this way as a Nova castria and so you 131 00:05:08,940 --> 00:05:06,370 know we like to get our money's worth 132 00:05:10,530 --> 00:05:08,950 when we come to Sydney indeed yeah it's 133 00:05:12,870 --> 00:05:10,540 been fantastic just hearing all the 134 00:05:14,610 --> 00:05:12,880 speakers seeing all the people face 135 00:05:17,130 --> 00:05:14,620 spotting all the all the people that you 136 00:05:19,140 --> 00:05:17,140 listen to on podcasts and see on the TV 137 00:05:20,850 --> 00:05:19,150 has been fantastic now we've got the 138 00:05:22,290 --> 00:05:20,860 skeptics guide to the universe guys over 139 00:05:23,940 --> 00:05:22,300 there and just about everybody seemed 140 00:05:25,830 --> 00:05:23,950 surprised to what they look like and 141 00:05:27,750 --> 00:05:25,840 they really shouldn't because they've 142 00:05:29,850 --> 00:05:27,760 only ever heard them so they could look 143 00:05:31,260 --> 00:05:29,860 like anything exactly you must build up 144 00:05:33,300 --> 00:05:31,270 and just build up a mental picture of 145 00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:33,310 what a cool person looks like I guess 146 00:05:36,540 --> 00:05:35,290 and then you see them and I guess 147 00:05:38,430 --> 00:05:36,550 they're even cooler than you expected 148 00:05:40,710 --> 00:05:38,440 and of course you must be obviously 149 00:05:42,990 --> 00:05:40,720 impressed by my spice girls t-shirt it 150 00:05:46,950 --> 00:05:43,000 it is fantastic I've never seen anything 151 00:05:49,020 --> 00:05:46,960 like it right that's very tactful that's 152 00:05:51,540 --> 00:05:49,030 very tactful for a skeptic and also 153 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:51,550 we've got you know Newcastle's Tobin 154 00:05:55,980 --> 00:05:54,010 atheists here who've we got my name's 155 00:05:57,710 --> 00:05:55,990 Brett I Brett with but we've heard for 156 00:05:59,900 --> 00:05:57,720 you before you run the 157 00:06:03,500 --> 00:05:59,910 the Atheist Society of Union Newcastle 158 00:06:05,930 --> 00:06:03,510 what's its official title the atheists 159 00:06:08,840 --> 00:06:05,940 agnostics anti-theist to Newcastle 160 00:06:10,850 --> 00:06:08,850 University you could you couldn't just 161 00:06:13,310 --> 00:06:10,860 make it a bit simpler could you yeah a 162 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:13,320 three thank you okay it's very simple 163 00:06:16,730 --> 00:06:15,090 now what are you here for is a bit of an 164 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:16,740 atheist bent to what you're looking for 165 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:19,050 at the Chairman stratum um no actually 166 00:06:24,980 --> 00:06:21,810 I'm also the vice president of the 167 00:06:27,290 --> 00:06:24,990 hunter skeptics oh yeah I'm I've got a 168 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:27,300 foot planted squarely in both camps and 169 00:06:30,710 --> 00:06:28,890 look what are you looking forward to 170 00:06:31,940 --> 00:06:30,720 hear what's going to be the one where 171 00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:31,950 you're going to be like eyeballing 172 00:06:37,670 --> 00:06:35,850 what's going on oh I don't know I 173 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:37,680 haven't really haven't really thought of 174 00:06:42,230 --> 00:06:40,410 that because I just I just wanted to see 175 00:06:43,730 --> 00:06:42,240 the whole thing unfortunately I didn't 176 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:43,740 get to because i got here at nine p.m. 177 00:06:48,350 --> 00:06:45,450 yesterday but what do you make of 178 00:06:52,460 --> 00:06:48,360 everybody could you describe the skeptic 179 00:06:53,540 --> 00:06:52,470 crowd come on look I'm a member of the 180 00:06:55,340 --> 00:06:53,550 media let's do a gross 181 00:06:59,990 --> 00:06:55,350 overgeneralization that's what we do 182 00:07:03,290 --> 00:07:00,000 yeah right smart attractive sociable 183 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:03,300 definitely and partying from what I've 184 00:07:07,970 --> 00:07:05,730 heard and what do you make of them bunch 185 00:07:09,770 --> 00:07:07,980 of dirty thieves and cutthroats I 186 00:07:12,470 --> 00:07:09,780 haven't seen a few pirates around i 187 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:12,480 knows a lot of that and musically what 188 00:07:15,260 --> 00:07:14,010 do you reckon to beat some depict a but 189 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:15,270 if we're going to the music of ten what 190 00:07:19,370 --> 00:07:17,010 would you go for I see the guy over 191 00:07:21,500 --> 00:07:19,380 there that the polish death metal fans 192 00:07:22,940 --> 00:07:21,510 over there hey going so we've had 193 00:07:25,130 --> 00:07:22,950 polished death metal we've had all sorts 194 00:07:26,810 --> 00:07:25,140 of stuff what your pick I know 195 00:07:28,550 --> 00:07:26,820 everyone's going to disagree with me and 196 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:28,560 that is the essence of the skeptics 197 00:07:35,270 --> 00:07:32,330 movement so I go watercolor by pendulum 198 00:07:37,580 --> 00:07:35,280 okay yeah let's say that's a it's a 199 00:07:39,890 --> 00:07:37,590 dance track okay it makes your statement 200 00:07:42,020 --> 00:07:39,900 definitely but come on this hallway in 201 00:07:43,690 --> 00:07:42,030 this would be cool for a party that's 202 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:43,700 sexy ass 203 00:07:47,620 --> 00:07:45,410 all we need to do is replace some of 204 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:47,630 those regular lights and some lasers and 205 00:07:58,690 --> 00:07:56,810 smoke machines good times well we're 206 00:08:00,310 --> 00:07:58,700 here at the brian dunning festival which 207 00:08:02,140 --> 00:08:00,320 just happens to coincide with tam 208 00:08:04,180 --> 00:08:02,150 australia and you just had the book 209 00:08:07,270 --> 00:08:04,190 signed by Brian you're a regular skip 210 00:08:08,620 --> 00:08:07,280 toward listener are you I am indeed been 211 00:08:10,300 --> 00:08:08,630 working my way up from the very 212 00:08:11,740 --> 00:08:10,310 beginning of them all till the most 213 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:11,750 recent one so yeah have you got a 214 00:08:16,660 --> 00:08:14,810 favorite episode I'm borrowing the fact 215 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:16,670 it took me about four shots listening 216 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:19,130 through redownloading it the homeopathic 217 00:08:24,100 --> 00:08:21,770 one is my by far my favorite maybe a 218 00:08:26,710 --> 00:08:24,110 perfect infinitive so right now it 219 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:26,720 literally was so yeah I'll get Brian to 220 00:08:31,069 --> 00:08:28,370 explain now it what did you do in the 221 00:08:34,139 --> 00:08:31,079 homeopathic episode 222 00:08:35,730 --> 00:08:34,149 for 10 minutes so now what I couldn't 223 00:08:38,699 --> 00:08:35,740 figure out is why 10 minutes you could 224 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:38,709 have achieved that with 11 minutes one 225 00:08:43,170 --> 00:08:40,810 minute was it a dilution thing what was 226 00:08:45,869 --> 00:08:43,180 it yeah you know it all goes by powers 227 00:08:47,879 --> 00:08:45,879 of 10 so 10 minutes of silence okay and 228 00:08:49,199 --> 00:08:47,889 so that's why you download it 4 times 229 00:08:51,300 --> 00:08:49,209 good thought you'd stuffed it up didn't 230 00:08:53,929 --> 00:08:51,310 you pretty much all my ipod broken oh 231 00:08:56,460 --> 00:08:53,939 god no okay so I've you ever thought of 232 00:08:59,579 --> 00:08:56,470 riding into him with some abusive mile 233 00:09:01,019 --> 00:08:59,589 he gets the best abusive mile I haven't 234 00:09:04,230 --> 00:09:01,029 thought of it really but you know now 235 00:09:05,490 --> 00:09:04,240 the suggestions planted and is it easy 236 00:09:07,410 --> 00:09:05,500 to turn your friends on the skipped I 237 00:09:09,269 --> 00:09:07,420 because he encourages it to do that and 238 00:09:12,210 --> 00:09:09,279 it isn't always easy to get people to 239 00:09:14,340 --> 00:09:12,220 listen to podcasts most of my friends 240 00:09:15,869 --> 00:09:14,350 are somewhat the fence set a side of 241 00:09:18,389 --> 00:09:15,879 things so I've gotten a couple of 242 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:18,399 interesting the ones I really like to 243 00:09:23,639 --> 00:09:20,290 get are the ones who are really deep in 244 00:09:25,259 --> 00:09:23,649 the in the woowoo side of things around 245 00:09:26,939 --> 00:09:25,269 which obviously that aren't going to 246 00:09:29,790 --> 00:09:26,949 work too easily I'm probably the only 247 00:09:31,769 --> 00:09:29,800 any personal live religiously no agenda 248 00:09:33,420 --> 00:09:31,779 show podcast and sceptile and enjoys 249 00:09:35,100 --> 00:09:33,430 them both and their brain doesn't 250 00:09:38,819 --> 00:09:35,110 explode because it's difficult when you 251 00:09:40,290 --> 00:09:38,829 have both sides going at once you'll see 252 00:09:42,329 --> 00:09:40,300 you look you're a sensible guy wearing a 253 00:09:43,710 --> 00:09:42,339 hat inside obviously I can see why you 254 00:09:46,110 --> 00:09:43,720 wouldn't want to pollute your mind when 255 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:46,120 any wood and what is your favorite we're 256 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:47,290 I've been asking a lot of people this 257 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:48,970 when you see something what's the thing 258 00:09:51,990 --> 00:09:50,170 that makes you fly for it straight away 259 00:09:54,860 --> 00:09:52,000 for some people is astrology for some 260 00:09:57,299 --> 00:09:54,870 people it's ending vaccine what's yours 261 00:09:59,220 --> 00:09:57,309 Scientology my parents got into science 262 00:10:01,230 --> 00:09:59,230 I'll do big when I was a kid any muck 263 00:10:04,379 --> 00:10:01,240 about our personal experience right yeah 264 00:10:06,389 --> 00:10:04,389 yeah and it's just even you know when I 265 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:06,399 was about 10 years old it's just rubbish 266 00:10:13,060 --> 00:10:08,490 heaped upon rubbish 267 00:10:15,500 --> 00:10:13,070 yeah then at one point I live / in / 268 00:10:17,930 --> 00:10:15,510 Scientologist came up to me had a bit of 269 00:10:20,210 --> 00:10:17,940 chat went on holiday to Switzerland the 270 00:10:22,730 --> 00:10:20,220 same Scientologist came up to me for a 271 00:10:26,420 --> 00:10:22,740 chat the persistent by took him that 272 00:10:28,639 --> 00:10:26,430 much get under the house really yes my 273 00:10:30,290 --> 00:10:28,649 mom which unfortunately going oh I don't 274 00:10:31,670 --> 00:10:30,300 speak German and so on didn't help me 275 00:10:33,829 --> 00:10:31,680 too much when they go oh well that's 276 00:10:35,900 --> 00:10:33,839 good we speak English grip and Ferb so 277 00:10:37,070 --> 00:10:35,910 that sounds like a conspiracy theory to 278 00:10:39,710 --> 00:10:37,080 me which doesn't really fit into a 279 00:10:41,030 --> 00:10:39,720 skeptics meeting funny anecdote 280 00:10:42,650 --> 00:10:41,040 nonetheless it's a good one analyst 281 00:10:45,019 --> 00:10:42,660 thank you and did Brian invite you back 282 00:10:49,550 --> 00:10:45,029 to the hot tub sadly no I got to miss 283 00:10:50,900 --> 00:10:49,560 out we and back to the brian dunning 284 00:10:53,030 --> 00:10:50,910 festival there you're lining up there 285 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:53,040 now how did you get turned on skip to it 286 00:10:57,680 --> 00:10:55,770 was it a bet gone bad I think it's just 287 00:10:59,660 --> 00:10:57,690 boredom begin we've been trolling on the 288 00:11:02,000 --> 00:10:59,670 internet and now that you're listening 289 00:11:03,710 --> 00:11:02,010 to podcasts because I work in radio I 290 00:11:05,990 --> 00:11:03,720 have a lot of podcasts on my iPhone all 291 00:11:07,790 --> 00:11:06,000 the time I get bored very quickly 292 00:11:08,990 --> 00:11:07,800 listening to regular radio because it's 293 00:11:10,460 --> 00:11:09,000 like when you have an ipod with your 294 00:11:12,110 --> 00:11:10,470 music on it when you hear are the music 295 00:11:13,730 --> 00:11:12,120 you haven't got time for it I've got all 296 00:11:15,319 --> 00:11:13,740 his radio shows shows that I'm into when 297 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:15,329 I listen to anybody else's radio station 298 00:11:18,470 --> 00:11:16,050 they're not playing anything i'm 299 00:11:21,260 --> 00:11:18,480 interested in it so is it is ruined 300 00:11:24,500 --> 00:11:21,270 radio for you not really nice to listen 301 00:11:26,510 --> 00:11:24,510 de vc radio really said well I work for 302 00:11:29,660 --> 00:11:26,520 ABC well yeah so perhaps i'm one step 303 00:11:31,370 --> 00:11:29,670 sadder and what turned you on to the 304 00:11:32,900 --> 00:11:31,380 world of dunning tell me one of the 305 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:32,910 world of dunning well yeah the brian 306 00:11:36,590 --> 00:11:34,890 dunning fest the done fest as it's known 307 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:36,600 I think it's a fairly linear arrangement 308 00:11:39,889 --> 00:11:38,610 you start off we are with Phil Plait and 309 00:11:41,269 --> 00:11:39,899 he lead you on to skip the cavity and he 310 00:11:43,340 --> 00:11:41,279 leads you under the skeptic guide he 311 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:43,350 leads you on to skip toward its got like 312 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:46,050 you know who's marijuana heroin then huh 313 00:11:50,630 --> 00:11:48,810 so gateway drug basically yeah that's 314 00:11:51,860 --> 00:11:50,640 kind of weird because i came in at it 315 00:11:54,949 --> 00:11:51,870 from the completely opposite direction 316 00:11:57,980 --> 00:11:54,959 i'm a fan of leo laporte's twit network 317 00:11:59,660 --> 00:11:57,990 Johnse dvorak does stuff with him he's 318 00:12:01,400 --> 00:11:59,670 on the no agenda so I listened to that 319 00:12:02,780 --> 00:12:01,410 and that they have their great out-there 320 00:12:04,910 --> 00:12:02,790 theories that they talk about all the 321 00:12:06,940 --> 00:12:04,920 time and that led me to the skeptics 322 00:12:10,910 --> 00:12:06,950 guide to the universe which led me to 323 00:12:12,110 --> 00:12:10,920 Brian limb and also that quack cast as 324 00:12:14,590 --> 00:12:12,120 well there's another great one as well 325 00:12:16,730 --> 00:12:14,600 so it's amazing one once you get into 326 00:12:18,199 --> 00:12:16,740 podcasts where you end up 327 00:12:20,930 --> 00:12:18,209 that's that's it's very true it's very 328 00:12:22,460 --> 00:12:20,940 true man we find it up here and what do 329 00:12:24,350 --> 00:12:22,470 you make of the skeptical meeting oh 330 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:24,360 well I was at the conference last year 331 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:26,010 in Brisbane which is where i hailed from 332 00:12:31,430 --> 00:12:29,250 and this one certainly a bit bigger mmm 333 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:31,440 and it's in the Masonic Temple yeah 334 00:12:35,540 --> 00:12:34,290 that's very interesting friend of mine 335 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:35,550 got a chance to go through the Masonic 336 00:12:39,019 --> 00:12:37,770 Lodge in Brisbane a few months ago but I 337 00:12:40,850 --> 00:12:39,029 portly was out of town and listed out 338 00:12:43,730 --> 00:12:40,860 and got a very interesting brochure all 339 00:12:45,230 --> 00:12:43,740 about being a Mason wow that could be 340 00:12:47,030 --> 00:12:45,240 you you might have to shave the beard I 341 00:12:48,740 --> 00:12:47,040 think they'll our beards do they I have 342 00:12:51,260 --> 00:12:48,750 no idea I didn't they didn't go into 343 00:12:52,670 --> 00:12:51,270 personal grooming habits in the UM it's 344 00:12:54,410 --> 00:12:52,680 a recruitment thing that's why I want to 345 00:12:55,730 --> 00:12:54,420 put you off it's like the Scientologist 346 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:55,740 won't tell you about what's his name 347 00:12:58,820 --> 00:12:57,330 then yeah the guy comes down with the 348 00:13:00,560 --> 00:12:58,830 thetans and so forth over a bit out of 349 00:13:01,790 --> 00:13:00,570 touch to that sound look I believe these 350 00:13:03,710 --> 00:13:01,800 skeptics guide the universe is on and 351 00:13:05,900 --> 00:13:03,720 they're pretty soon so I will no longer 352 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:05,910 block your way to dunning I just gotta 353 00:13:12,290 --> 00:13:07,290 get a picture of myself with him you see 354 00:13:14,420 --> 00:13:12,300 say oh you're me to say well we're here 355 00:13:17,060 --> 00:13:14,430 at tam australian our man that I've had 356 00:13:18,230 --> 00:13:17,070 a few interactions with over the not 357 00:13:19,370 --> 00:13:18,240 only been about a year or so but I've 358 00:13:22,519 --> 00:13:19,380 been listening to his podcast for a 359 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:22,529 while Brian Dunning from skeptic com and 360 00:13:27,110 --> 00:13:25,050 i've just been polling the people in the 361 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:27,120 room and I was also asking him a couple 362 00:13:33,410 --> 00:13:28,770 of questions while I was at it and they 363 00:13:35,930 --> 00:13:33,420 said that two questions do you go to bed 364 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:35,940 every night and kiss your wife goodnight 365 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:38,370 and go I'm Brian Dunning from skepticon 366 00:13:41,630 --> 00:13:40,050 do sign off every night like that before 367 00:13:43,699 --> 00:13:41,640 you get a bit I do because that's how to 368 00:13:45,110 --> 00:13:43,709 get her motor running oh wow yeah well 369 00:13:47,269 --> 00:13:45,120 cuz you got the voice you got the 370 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:47,279 Melissa she's making that the facial 371 00:13:51,829 --> 00:13:48,810 expression she's giving me right now was 372 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:51,839 well worth it and look and she comes to 373 00:13:55,430 --> 00:13:53,250 all these conferences around the world 374 00:13:57,560 --> 00:13:55,440 when you go and look what's life on the 375 00:13:59,300 --> 00:13:57,570 road with dunning that the darling 376 00:14:03,920 --> 00:13:59,310 family is a bit like the partners family 377 00:14:06,530 --> 00:14:03,930 bus yes except without the without the 378 00:14:08,660 --> 00:14:06,540 the all the fun music and the ND most 379 00:14:10,340 --> 00:14:08,670 music baby colorful bus and boy 380 00:14:12,170 --> 00:14:10,350 obviously without the brain cells and 381 00:14:14,630 --> 00:14:12,180 look bully it look a lot of people who 382 00:14:17,060 --> 00:14:14,640 are suffering from jetlag and heavy 383 00:14:18,949 --> 00:14:17,070 drinking i have not had the opportunity 384 00:14:20,329 --> 00:14:18,959 to suffer from any heavy drinking and 385 00:14:21,769 --> 00:14:20,339 i'm very disappointed because they 386 00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:21,779 promised me that when i came to 387 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:23,760 australia that would be the principal 388 00:14:28,490 --> 00:14:26,490 thesis around the event but hasn't 389 00:14:29,310 --> 00:14:28,500 materialized also you got contact so 390 00:14:32,790 --> 00:14:29,320 euro has that blue 391 00:14:34,230 --> 00:14:32,800 Brian oh I tattooed them actually you 392 00:14:36,060 --> 00:14:34,240 know they have the injectable tattoos 393 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:36,070 and video yeah was it matches your shirt 394 00:14:39,060 --> 00:14:37,330 you've got a really blue shirt on there 395 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:39,070 and I know for a while you've been 396 00:14:43,260 --> 00:14:41,050 trying to get a bit of a TV thing going 397 00:14:45,210 --> 00:14:43,270 there with the with the sceptile how 398 00:14:46,770 --> 00:14:45,220 hard is that because I spoke to you 399 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:46,780 about this in the first interview in 400 00:14:50,370 --> 00:14:48,970 that the x-files which was originally 401 00:14:51,780 --> 00:14:50,380 going to be a documentary series anyway 402 00:14:53,370 --> 00:14:51,790 they want to make a spooky woo 403 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:53,380 documentary series and they couldn't 404 00:14:56,940 --> 00:14:54,490 sell it so they had to make it a 405 00:15:00,060 --> 00:14:56,950 fictional woo thing right how hard is it 406 00:15:01,530 --> 00:15:00,070 to go and basically do a debunking show 407 00:15:03,180 --> 00:15:01,540 which is you kind of is what it would be 408 00:15:04,950 --> 00:15:03,190 yeah well you know we're going the up as 409 00:15:07,230 --> 00:15:04,960 a direction we started with an idea that 410 00:15:08,940 --> 00:15:07,240 was going to be for network TV and we 411 00:15:10,230 --> 00:15:08,950 found out that what the network's want 412 00:15:12,210 --> 00:15:10,240 is something that's basically 413 00:15:13,890 --> 00:15:12,220 sensational they don't care what the 414 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:13,900 quality of information is they just want 415 00:15:17,310 --> 00:15:15,490 something sensational and crazy and 416 00:15:19,530 --> 00:15:17,320 that's not the show the kind of show 417 00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:19,540 that we want so instead we're redoing it 418 00:15:23,940 --> 00:15:22,000 for Public Broadcasting because there's 419 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:23,950 you know stands or standards of quality 420 00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:26,050 there so that would make it slightly 421 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:28,240 more documentary and you wouldn't be 422 00:15:32,700 --> 00:15:29,530 busting into people's houses going 423 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:32,710 you're a bad person exactly yeah okay 424 00:15:36,930 --> 00:15:34,930 now and what is your one big boob again 425 00:15:38,430 --> 00:15:36,940 now I remember you do like to take 426 00:15:40,410 --> 00:15:38,440 multivitamins when you think you're 427 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:40,420 feeling sick which you've actually done 428 00:15:44,310 --> 00:15:42,850 a show saying isn't true yet you still 429 00:15:47,130 --> 00:15:44,320 do that Brian no no I don't do that 430 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:47,140 anymore not not since the show not since 431 00:15:52,290 --> 00:15:49,090 the show I've forced my you know what it 432 00:15:53,790 --> 00:15:52,300 is now is these magical fruit drinks and 433 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:53,800 supplements that are usually sold with 434 00:15:57,930 --> 00:15:56,170 multi-level marketing programs yet now 435 00:15:59,670 --> 00:15:57,940 i'm not aware of them as much here in 436 00:16:01,920 --> 00:15:59,680 australia i'm sure we do have them and 437 00:16:04,860 --> 00:16:01,930 it's is it basically a form of pyramid 438 00:16:06,540 --> 00:16:04,870 selling yes that's exactly what it is in 439 00:16:09,060 --> 00:16:06,550 the you've got to get it in early 440 00:16:10,410 --> 00:16:09,070 basically well you yeah but not even 441 00:16:12,210 --> 00:16:10,420 that so much you've got to be one of the 442 00:16:14,900 --> 00:16:12,220 original employees of the company whose 443 00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:14,910 you know at the top of the chain these 444 00:16:20,130 --> 00:16:17,680 surveys have been done and the the 445 00:16:21,390 --> 00:16:20,140 best-performing ones are still night 446 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:21,400 more than ninety nine percent of the 447 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:23,650 people lose money who are involved with 448 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:25,690 them and that's the best performing 449 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:27,850 multi-level marketing programs okay so 450 00:16:32,670 --> 00:16:30,490 when you're um pouring scorn on net on 451 00:16:34,230 --> 00:16:32,680 your show and your website that's going 452 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:34,240 to make people that are making money 453 00:16:37,770 --> 00:16:36,130 from that kind of thing pretty pissed 454 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:37,780 off with you well I'm not worried about 455 00:16:40,410 --> 00:16:39,250 that because none of them are making 456 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:40,420 money from it 457 00:16:43,650 --> 00:16:42,010 only the feet the only people who make 458 00:16:45,810 --> 00:16:43,660 money are the people at the company who 459 00:16:47,639 --> 00:16:45,820 sell the product see they recruit you 460 00:16:48,660 --> 00:16:47,649 into their program and they tell you 461 00:16:50,819 --> 00:16:48,670 that you're starting your own business 462 00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:50,829 or you're now a distributor and really 463 00:16:55,290 --> 00:16:52,480 you're just their customer you're just 464 00:16:56,759 --> 00:16:55,300 forced to buy a certain allotment of 465 00:16:58,920 --> 00:16:56,769 their product every month and it's an 466 00:17:01,139 --> 00:16:58,930 outrageously overpriced fruit drink more 467 00:17:02,670 --> 00:17:01,149 often than not or whatever it is that's 468 00:17:04,500 --> 00:17:02,680 how the program works they force you to 469 00:17:07,799 --> 00:17:04,510 be their customer and would you've 470 00:17:10,559 --> 00:17:07,809 picked the success of the power band in 471 00:17:12,539 --> 00:17:10,569 like 2010 like I'm wearing a placebo 472 00:17:14,039 --> 00:17:12,549 bantam irish so we've got a rubber thing 473 00:17:15,780 --> 00:17:14,049 you wear on your wrist that's got a 474 00:17:18,419 --> 00:17:15,790 hologram in it and people think it does 475 00:17:20,909 --> 00:17:18,429 amazing things sports people tend to go 476 00:17:22,409 --> 00:17:20,919 with them um I'm so you know I don't 477 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:22,419 know much about skepticism but I would 478 00:17:26,939 --> 00:17:24,490 have thought that everybody by 2010 479 00:17:29,970 --> 00:17:26,949 wouldn't believe such a thing I you know 480 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:29,980 I keep saying I keep saying nothing 481 00:17:33,390 --> 00:17:31,450 would surprise me but I'm continually 482 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:33,400 surprised by things like this you know 483 00:17:37,740 --> 00:17:35,770 if you bother to look at their marketing 484 00:17:39,299 --> 00:17:37,750 for the for the power balance and all 485 00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:39,309 the related companies knocking them off 486 00:17:43,650 --> 00:17:42,130 they use they use a 75 year old stage 487 00:17:45,870 --> 00:17:43,660 magicians trick called applied 488 00:17:47,909 --> 00:17:45,880 kinesiology to demonstrate that it 489 00:17:50,250 --> 00:17:47,919 actually works where the stage magician 490 00:17:51,690 --> 00:17:50,260 can do some really simple tricks and 491 00:17:53,250 --> 00:17:51,700 very subtle pressure changes on your 492 00:17:55,110 --> 00:17:53,260 body to make you think you've got more 493 00:17:57,900 --> 00:17:55,120 or less strength whatever they want to 494 00:17:59,580 --> 00:17:57,910 make you think and Power Balance they 495 00:18:02,850 --> 00:17:59,590 didn't even change the name of the trick 496 00:18:05,250 --> 00:18:02,860 they call it applied kinesiology shows 497 00:18:06,860 --> 00:18:05,260 why it works it proves that it works and 498 00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:06,870 you think those sports people are 499 00:18:10,409 --> 00:18:09,280 naturally bit superstitious because it 500 00:18:12,450 --> 00:18:10,419 doesn't matter how talented you are 501 00:18:14,669 --> 00:18:12,460 there is an element of luck in sports 502 00:18:16,110 --> 00:18:14,679 sometimes that maybe they're more prone 503 00:18:17,789 --> 00:18:16,120 to believing in this sort of thing the 504 00:18:20,310 --> 00:18:17,799 professional athletes you see wearing 505 00:18:22,500 --> 00:18:20,320 them are paid to wear them I don't I'm 506 00:18:24,180 --> 00:18:22,510 not aware of any professional athletes 507 00:18:25,830 --> 00:18:24,190 that use them because they think they 508 00:18:27,750 --> 00:18:25,840 work however I know plenty of just 509 00:18:28,950 --> 00:18:27,760 regular athletes who are I've got I play 510 00:18:30,450 --> 00:18:28,960 volleyball and in a lot of Southern 511 00:18:31,860 --> 00:18:30,460 California volleyball players you see 512 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:31,870 these power balance bands all over the 513 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:35,890 place now now so you you out so if you 514 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:37,330 run out of things yet how many episodes 515 00:18:40,980 --> 00:18:38,650 of skipped out of you dumb broad I 516 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:40,990 believe two hundred and thirty-four 517 00:18:44,370 --> 00:18:42,610 thirty-five will beat on to get arrested 518 00:18:45,270 --> 00:18:44,380 when the brine but get over it man move 519 00:18:51,010 --> 00:18:45,280 on 520 00:18:52,390 --> 00:18:51,020 people send them to me far faster than 521 00:18:55,180 --> 00:18:52,400 I'll ever be able to keep up with it and 522 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:55,190 you have people to do research for you 523 00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:56,690 for free because they love doing it uni 524 00:18:59,890 --> 00:18:58,010 students and that kind of stuff that 525 00:19:02,890 --> 00:18:59,900 must be helpful but still you've got 526 00:19:06,070 --> 00:19:02,900 accolade at all yeah well actually I the 527 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:06,080 assistance that I have they look up 528 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:07,610 further reading suggestions for past 529 00:19:10,900 --> 00:19:09,170 episodes they don't help with with 530 00:19:12,850 --> 00:19:10,910 research on current episodes I do have a 531 00:19:15,070 --> 00:19:12,860 google group that I'll send an email to 532 00:19:17,140 --> 00:19:15,080 when I have a specific question I can't 533 00:19:18,430 --> 00:19:17,150 find buy use that maybe once or twice a 534 00:19:20,799 --> 00:19:18,440 month it's not something I use very 535 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:20,809 often now in the skeptical community 536 00:19:23,770 --> 00:19:22,250 which I'm learning more about all the 537 00:19:26,140 --> 00:19:23,780 time and I don't consider myself much of 538 00:19:28,330 --> 00:19:26,150 a skeptic cuz you know I kind of believe 539 00:19:30,039 --> 00:19:28,340 in UFOs of it Brian you know I kind of 540 00:19:31,060 --> 00:19:30,049 think that there might be a dimension 541 00:19:32,260 --> 00:19:31,070 that they're moving through and it's 542 00:19:33,909 --> 00:19:32,270 just something we see from time to time 543 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:33,919 I know statistically that's almost 544 00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:36,530 impossible but you know um to begrudge 545 00:19:42,430 --> 00:19:40,370 me that you know that's that's among the 546 00:19:44,500 --> 00:19:42,440 least harmful beliefs everyone believes 547 00:19:46,570 --> 00:19:44,510 something weird everyone believes 548 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:46,580 something that's not proven by evidence 549 00:19:52,330 --> 00:19:50,210 I'm sure myself included and most of the 550 00:19:54,490 --> 00:19:52,340 time it's completely harmless I mean 551 00:19:55,930 --> 00:19:54,500 yeah if I acted upon it like you know I 552 00:19:58,120 --> 00:19:55,940 thought they were coming to get me and I 553 00:19:59,919 --> 00:19:58,130 was making plans about my life that 554 00:20:01,870 --> 00:19:59,929 would not be a good thing but you know i 555 00:20:03,789 --> 00:20:01,880 just find it an interesting intellectual 556 00:20:06,340 --> 00:20:03,799 exercise yeah well you see the thing is 557 00:20:08,260 --> 00:20:06,350 that it's a pattern of thought where you 558 00:20:09,789 --> 00:20:08,270 say when you start to believe anything 559 00:20:11,950 --> 00:20:09,799 that you hear in the in the popular 560 00:20:13,419 --> 00:20:11,960 media without re-examining it critically 561 00:20:14,980 --> 00:20:13,429 it's a that's a whole pattern of thought 562 00:20:17,110 --> 00:20:14,990 that can lead to other problems because 563 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:17,120 now you might be susceptible well you 564 00:20:20,049 --> 00:20:18,410 might be tricked into buying one of 565 00:20:22,090 --> 00:20:20,059 these power balance bands for example 566 00:20:23,289 --> 00:20:22,100 you might you might be tricked into 567 00:20:25,090 --> 00:20:23,299 using some sort of an alternative 568 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:25,100 therapy that when you get ill that's 569 00:20:28,870 --> 00:20:26,690 going to do nothing for you except 570 00:20:30,580 --> 00:20:28,880 lighten your wallet there's all kinds of 571 00:20:33,250 --> 00:20:30,590 things that people are susceptible to 572 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:33,260 all kinds of marketing etc etc if they 573 00:20:36,940 --> 00:20:35,690 don't think critically and when I spoke 574 00:20:39,820 --> 00:20:36,950 to you earlier in the year we spoke 575 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:39,830 about atheism and you think most 576 00:20:45,070 --> 00:20:42,890 skeptics are actually atheists or not in 577 00:20:47,590 --> 00:20:45,080 my experience yeah the vast majority are 578 00:20:49,450 --> 00:20:47,600 and there's a lot there's a lot of 579 00:20:53,290 --> 00:20:49,460 crossover between the Atheist community 580 00:20:54,490 --> 00:20:53,300 and the skeptical community I hate to 581 00:20:55,570 --> 00:20:54,500 use the word community because it makes 582 00:20:57,730 --> 00:20:55,580 us sound like a cult 583 00:20:59,320 --> 00:20:57,740 you know basically scientific skepticism 584 00:21:00,940 --> 00:20:59,330 is looking at things like this power 585 00:21:03,340 --> 00:21:00,950 balance and these bizarre claims that 586 00:21:04,870 --> 00:21:03,350 are in pop culture and atheist activism 587 00:21:06,430 --> 00:21:04,880 is about telling people that their gods 588 00:21:09,970 --> 00:21:06,440 not real those are two different things 589 00:21:12,100 --> 00:21:09,980 in my opinion mmm and yeah and also you 590 00:21:13,570 --> 00:21:12,110 know you can piss people off when you 591 00:21:17,410 --> 00:21:13,580 tell them that their deity doesn't exist 592 00:21:19,690 --> 00:21:17,420 as well oh sure um I you know I I like 593 00:21:22,210 --> 00:21:19,700 to I like to pick my battles and I don't 594 00:21:24,130 --> 00:21:22,220 want to turn off most of my audience by 595 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:24,140 saying first in order to listen to me 596 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:26,170 you've got to hate religious people I 597 00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:28,850 don't do that i know a lot of other a 598 00:21:32,950 --> 00:21:31,370 lot of other skeptical outreach 599 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:32,960 professionals they do do that they 600 00:21:38,830 --> 00:21:35,450 conflate atheism with skepticism and 601 00:21:40,030 --> 00:21:38,840 that's not the way I roll hmm and what 602 00:21:42,550 --> 00:21:40,040 do you reckon to the chances of this 603 00:21:44,530 --> 00:21:42,560 show getting picked up his TV show you 604 00:21:46,810 --> 00:21:44,540 know I don't think they're half bad dr. 605 00:21:49,060 --> 00:21:46,820 Pamela gay who's our grant writer she 606 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:49,070 keeps us in check with very realistic 607 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:50,930 expectations for how likely it is to get 608 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:52,730 any of these specific federal grants 609 00:21:56,950 --> 00:21:54,770 that were going after but I'm really 610 00:21:58,510 --> 00:21:56,960 optimistic also I spent a lot of money 611 00:22:00,340 --> 00:21:58,520 personally making the pilot so I'm 612 00:22:02,020 --> 00:22:00,350 telling myself that I'm optimistic yeah 613 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:02,030 and how many pilots is that you've made 614 00:22:04,930 --> 00:22:03,650 now like as someone who's the better and 615 00:22:06,580 --> 00:22:04,940 the banking lots of pilots have never 616 00:22:08,260 --> 00:22:06,590 got picked up bum I know how 617 00:22:13,150 --> 00:22:08,270 disappointing it can be has it been for 618 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:13,160 you as I mean cuz you go well so so far 619 00:22:16,180 --> 00:22:14,810 that's the only that's the only pilot 620 00:22:19,210 --> 00:22:16,190 that I've been involved in one that I 621 00:22:21,610 --> 00:22:19,220 had to pay for and make myself but I 622 00:22:22,870 --> 00:22:21,620 will gladly take any other offers that 623 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:22,880 come my way because I'd love for 624 00:22:26,590 --> 00:22:24,890 something to stick to the wall well yeah 625 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:26,600 cuz I gotta say I wouldn't imagine you'd 626 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:28,730 be that like what's your principal 627 00:22:32,290 --> 00:22:30,530 income I mean I couldn't imagine that is 628 00:22:34,180 --> 00:22:32,300 kept toward your principal income i mean 629 00:22:35,470 --> 00:22:34,190 i did did everybody jump or somewhere 630 00:22:37,330 --> 00:22:35,480 bryan oh I don't want to see a bank 631 00:22:39,250 --> 00:22:37,340 account but I just I just think yeah I 632 00:22:41,230 --> 00:22:39,260 don't know too many people that survive 633 00:22:42,850 --> 00:22:41,240 on their podcast yeah no that's that's 634 00:22:45,670 --> 00:22:42,860 that's true it's most of my time and 635 00:22:47,350 --> 00:22:45,680 almost none of my income I'm my 636 00:22:49,870 --> 00:22:47,360 backgrounds in computer science and I 637 00:22:51,130 --> 00:22:49,880 still have some some leftover computer 638 00:22:53,110 --> 00:22:51,140 science work that I do some consulting 639 00:22:56,620 --> 00:22:53,120 and so forth hey you amuse though as 640 00:22:58,360 --> 00:22:56,630 well not really i've got i've got an old 641 00:23:01,960 --> 00:22:58,370 synthesizer in my closet that I played a 642 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:01,970 lot in college everyone with a lot of 643 00:23:04,990 --> 00:23:03,530 things in college you know I mean that's 644 00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:05,000 good to see you've still got up there 645 00:23:07,710 --> 00:23:07,310 and how does your long-suffering family 646 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:07,720 put up 647 00:23:12,270 --> 00:23:10,690 with dad the skeptic Oh duck kids know 648 00:23:14,010 --> 00:23:12,280 that that's not based in science don't 649 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:14,020 do that and thanks dad you just ruined 650 00:23:18,090 --> 00:23:16,450 us our friends think we're uncool now oh 651 00:23:21,210 --> 00:23:18,100 yeah how does the family handle it they 652 00:23:22,830 --> 00:23:21,220 love it and actually all my kids when 653 00:23:24,810 --> 00:23:22,840 they play the podcast for their friends 654 00:23:26,970 --> 00:23:24,820 their friends love it too so it it goes 655 00:23:28,860 --> 00:23:26,980 over very very well and I must thank you 656 00:23:30,750 --> 00:23:28,870 for doing a message for me when I did 657 00:23:32,730 --> 00:23:30,760 skeptics in the pub view you gave you 658 00:23:34,620 --> 00:23:32,740 gave a warning to everybody and I was 659 00:23:36,870 --> 00:23:34,630 able to find some pictures online of you 660 00:23:38,220 --> 00:23:36,880 busting a move in a lobby somewhere a 661 00:23:40,140 --> 00:23:38,230 conference you're doing these really 662 00:23:42,419 --> 00:23:40,150 wild dance moves they're on there on 663 00:23:44,279 --> 00:23:42,429 google just put brian dunning dancing in 664 00:23:46,470 --> 00:23:44,289 and there's you in a foia doing all 665 00:23:48,510 --> 00:23:46,480 these really wild moves that terrifies 666 00:23:50,310 --> 00:23:48,520 me I have no idea what I think you some 667 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:50,320 dragon con or something ah well I 668 00:23:54,750 --> 00:23:52,090 wouldn't surprise me at all in that case 669 00:23:56,070 --> 00:23:54,760 yeah I can con who knows now here's your 670 00:23:57,570 --> 00:23:56,080 chance to get your message out to the 671 00:23:59,490 --> 00:23:57,580 world you know what do you reckon people 672 00:24:00,899 --> 00:23:59,500 should keep an eye out for what's the 673 00:24:02,100 --> 00:24:00,909 latest word that's come along with just 674 00:24:03,779 --> 00:24:02,110 around the corner that we might not a 675 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:03,789 spotted yet you know that's the thing 676 00:24:07,380 --> 00:24:05,650 take a look next time you're out in the 677 00:24:09,450 --> 00:24:07,390 street reading a magazine looking at 678 00:24:10,860 --> 00:24:09,460 signs on the street whatever it is take 679 00:24:12,810 --> 00:24:10,870 a look and see what's what people are 680 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:12,820 promoting see if you can find something 681 00:24:17,610 --> 00:24:15,250 that may not necessarily have any 682 00:24:19,409 --> 00:24:17,620 science behind it it's much more 683 00:24:21,299 --> 00:24:19,419 prolific than you think you just have to 684 00:24:23,190 --> 00:24:21,309 be aware and keep an eye out for it once 685 00:24:25,470 --> 00:24:23,200 you do that you're going to find out 686 00:24:27,210 --> 00:24:25,480 that there's really fascinating science 687 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:27,220 behind really fascinating things and 688 00:24:30,419 --> 00:24:28,690 that's what I love to bring to people 689 00:24:31,860 --> 00:24:30,429 with my show can you do your sign-off 690 00:24:33,899 --> 00:24:31,870 man because you've got to do this on or 691 00:24:36,690 --> 00:24:33,909 not and I'm sure you know when you kiss 692 00:24:39,390 --> 00:24:36,700 you wife goodnight you go do it gone 693 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:39,400 you're listening to scape tied i'm brian 694 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:46,840 look I'm just talking with one of the 695 00:24:52,330 --> 00:24:49,010 skeptics guide to the universe we have 696 00:24:54,940 --> 00:24:52,340 this is jay jay and look usual for Big 697 00:24:56,620 --> 00:24:54,950 Pharma I absolutely have yeah great cuz 698 00:24:58,150 --> 00:24:56,630 i'd like some dex amphetamine and a 699 00:24:59,049 --> 00:24:58,160 bucket of ritalin to take away you got 700 00:25:00,669 --> 00:24:59,059 that kind of stuff at the back there 701 00:25:02,260 --> 00:25:00,679 yeah I got it in the hotel room was just 702 00:25:04,750 --> 00:25:02,270 talking to pop over there and I get it 703 00:25:05,919 --> 00:25:04,760 you know I love big farm on that if I've 704 00:25:07,060 --> 00:25:05,929 run into a shield it's great i know 705 00:25:08,289 --> 00:25:07,070 they're going to have that kind of stuff 706 00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:08,299 lying around and i don't know why people 707 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:10,370 give it a bad rap well I'll tell you 708 00:25:14,710 --> 00:25:12,650 what look the bottom line is Big Pharma 709 00:25:17,890 --> 00:25:14,720 exists everybody everybody's buying 710 00:25:20,770 --> 00:25:17,900 medication were very medicated society 711 00:25:21,940 --> 00:25:20,780 and that we've admitted on the show but 712 00:25:24,340 --> 00:25:21,950 we know that there are things that big 713 00:25:25,780 --> 00:25:24,350 farmer does that uh that sometimes the 714 00:25:27,190 --> 00:25:25,790 enemy found that refreshing you 715 00:25:28,659 --> 00:25:27,200 interviewing who was the other week who 716 00:25:31,030 --> 00:25:28,669 was saying that i'm not sure i can't 717 00:25:33,190 --> 00:25:31,040 remember i'm sorry i'm incredibly gentle 718 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:33,200 ahead it was mainly a and he was saying 719 00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:35,450 regulations the problem yeah yeah 720 00:25:38,980 --> 00:25:37,760 absolutely yeah you know any big 721 00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:38,990 corporation i don't care what you're 722 00:25:42,190 --> 00:25:40,130 selling it doesn't you know it's not 723 00:25:44,289 --> 00:25:42,200 anything to do just medication has to do 724 00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:44,299 with every big company the regulations 725 00:25:48,100 --> 00:25:46,130 are there in the regulations are there 726 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:48,110 for a reason because big companies tend 727 00:25:51,340 --> 00:25:49,730 to continue to want to grow and make 728 00:25:53,710 --> 00:25:51,350 more money and take advantage of 729 00:25:55,419 --> 00:25:53,720 opportunity so why wouldn't big pharma 730 00:25:57,159 --> 00:25:55,429 do it they do but that's why we do have 731 00:25:59,530 --> 00:25:57,169 regulations and they do get caught doing 732 00:26:01,480 --> 00:25:59,540 things that we do talk about it now you 733 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:01,490 are caught doing things and you're well 734 00:26:05,140 --> 00:26:03,290 you were bigger than big pharma doing a 735 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:05,150 skeptic's guide the universe live in 736 00:26:09,610 --> 00:26:07,490 front of three million people in the 737 00:26:11,380 --> 00:26:09,620 Masonic Temple of Sydney had that film 738 00:26:13,570 --> 00:26:11,390 it was great yeah the audience was great 739 00:26:15,310 --> 00:26:13,580 was a really good vibe in the room I 740 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:15,320 seem like everybody had a good time but 741 00:26:19,150 --> 00:26:17,330 we loved it when our live shows anything 742 00:26:20,380 --> 00:26:19,160 missing because it was a Masonic Temple 743 00:26:22,510 --> 00:26:20,390 and you would get the flintstone 744 00:26:24,190 --> 00:26:22,520 reference a grand pooh-bah hat you know 745 00:26:25,270 --> 00:26:24,200 the big pat with the horn someone should 746 00:26:28,210 --> 00:26:25,280 have had that yeah but those aren't 747 00:26:30,460 --> 00:26:28,220 actually Mason's those are yeah those 748 00:26:33,430 --> 00:26:30,470 are not like an offshoot order the 749 00:26:35,230 --> 00:26:33,440 Buffalo those are the Shriners I think 750 00:26:36,700 --> 00:26:35,240 we're going to see we get confused we 751 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:36,710 see you Americans doing stuff we just 752 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:38,330 think you all do it and I'd like you 753 00:26:41,890 --> 00:26:39,890 think we all have big spiders around the 754 00:26:44,620 --> 00:26:41,900 house well I got to tell you though I 755 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:44,630 saw a giant spider at the Botanical 756 00:26:49,060 --> 00:26:46,970 Gardens and it was bigger than it was a 757 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:49,070 mobile not have an African one bak well 758 00:26:52,030 --> 00:26:50,450 it wasn't it wasn't poison somebody 759 00:26:53,500 --> 00:26:52,040 walked by I said it wasn't places but 760 00:26:54,570 --> 00:26:53,510 you know they're intimidating I don't 761 00:26:57,299 --> 00:26:54,580 like big splash 762 00:26:59,009 --> 00:26:57,309 what you in Iraq mofo no definitely not 763 00:27:00,659 --> 00:26:59,019 but it you know anything anything big 764 00:27:01,889 --> 00:27:00,669 with big claws like they're big those 765 00:27:03,450 --> 00:27:01,899 big spider teeth I don't wanna have 766 00:27:04,799 --> 00:27:03,460 anything to do with it look now you can 767 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:04,809 have a lie-down you've got the big party 768 00:27:08,820 --> 00:27:06,010 on the boat tonight yeah are you gonna 769 00:27:10,230 --> 00:27:08,830 be there well no I'm i was invited to 770 00:27:12,060 --> 00:27:10,240 play the part of Captain Stubing on the 771 00:27:13,259 --> 00:27:12,070 boat but I I thought no no so people 772 00:27:15,060 --> 00:27:13,269 remember what happens on the boat stays 773 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:15,070 on the boat that's right you got it I'll 774 00:27:18,149 --> 00:27:16,690 be talk to you guys tomorrow and great 775 00:27:20,159 --> 00:27:18,159 to see you here and do you think you'll 776 00:27:21,659 --> 00:27:20,169 ever lose most of your life and travel 777 00:27:23,970 --> 00:27:21,669 to Australia again on the plan for that 778 00:27:25,350 --> 00:27:23,980 long definitely I think maybe about two 779 00:27:26,610 --> 00:27:25,360 years I think we'll do it again wow 780 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:26,620 that's great see then thank you very 781 00:27:33,090 --> 00:27:31,570 much well ladies and gentlemen no doubt 782 00:27:34,889 --> 00:27:33,100 all of you out there have a power 783 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:34,899 balance band and you've noticed how has 784 00:27:38,970 --> 00:27:37,210 changed your life beyond belief I've got 785 00:27:41,039 --> 00:27:38,980 some guys here that are from a place far 786 00:27:43,950 --> 00:27:41,049 far away that you will probably never 787 00:27:46,230 --> 00:27:43,960 visit Western Australia and they've done 788 00:27:48,060 --> 00:27:46,240 the placebo band which I have a couple 789 00:27:49,590 --> 00:27:48,070 of them I've got I'm wearing three and 790 00:27:51,299 --> 00:27:49,600 only two of them on my wrists hi guys 791 00:27:53,190 --> 00:27:51,309 how are you odeon added tell us who you 792 00:27:55,500 --> 00:27:53,200 I'm Tom Cotter and there's my brother 793 00:27:58,379 --> 00:27:55,510 Nick creature hello and Nick's got the 794 00:28:00,269 --> 00:27:58,389 pork pie look he's got the the specials 795 00:28:01,950 --> 00:28:00,279 look from the early eighties they're not 796 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:01,960 quite scar but it so it's got a star 797 00:28:06,060 --> 00:28:03,490 look it's scar mixed with a bit of Billy 798 00:28:09,330 --> 00:28:06,070 Joel look you got going there yeah it's 799 00:28:11,639 --> 00:28:09,340 covering up my scars right and can we 800 00:28:14,810 --> 00:28:11,649 have a comment on my t-shirt I was 801 00:28:19,669 --> 00:28:14,820 trying to think of one um it's it's 802 00:28:23,250 --> 00:28:19,679 scary and babyish all at once that I 803 00:28:24,570 --> 00:28:23,260 don't go flagging and failing I try and 804 00:28:26,370 --> 00:28:24,580 get a reaction out of the skeptics by 805 00:28:28,500 --> 00:28:26,380 putting my hand up for UFOs yesterday 806 00:28:31,019 --> 00:28:28,510 only person in the room and wearing a 807 00:28:32,159 --> 00:28:31,029 spice girls t-shirt the next day what 808 00:28:38,430 --> 00:28:32,169 are you going to get a rise out of you 809 00:28:41,279 --> 00:28:38,440 people do it look let's stick to the 810 00:28:43,860 --> 00:28:41,289 topic here now why did you decide to do 811 00:28:45,629 --> 00:28:43,870 your own placebo bands I mean I mean I I 812 00:28:46,889 --> 00:28:45,639 see lots of dumb ideas every day but i 813 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:46,899 don't i don't give out and manufacture 814 00:28:50,430 --> 00:28:48,330 my own version 815 00:28:54,450 --> 00:28:50,440 probably because we were a little bit 816 00:28:55,650 --> 00:28:54,460 done no it was something we wanted to we 817 00:28:57,510 --> 00:28:55,660 that we didn't want to do a podcast 818 00:28:59,550 --> 00:28:57,520 because there's plenty of them and 819 00:29:01,350 --> 00:28:59,560 they're done really well we wanted to 820 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:01,360 get something together we're really lazy 821 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:03,490 bloggers and this seemed like a good 822 00:29:08,610 --> 00:29:06,730 idea at the time Nick found out how much 823 00:29:10,860 --> 00:29:08,620 it would cost us to do and it seemed 824 00:29:12,330 --> 00:29:10,870 feasible so we did it and what's been 825 00:29:14,940 --> 00:29:12,340 the reaction to having a placebo bands 826 00:29:16,950 --> 00:29:14,950 because it still look even because I'm 827 00:29:20,250 --> 00:29:16,960 like you know a para skeptic I'm the 828 00:29:21,420 --> 00:29:20,260 Dulce skeptic but even to me in the 21st 829 00:29:23,100 --> 00:29:21,430 century the fact that you could wear a 830 00:29:24,330 --> 00:29:23,110 rubber thing on your wrist with some 831 00:29:25,950 --> 00:29:24,340 sort of hologram like we have on our 832 00:29:27,660 --> 00:29:25,960 money in which case we should all be 833 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:27,670 lucky just as Holograms are their money 834 00:29:31,950 --> 00:29:29,890 that someone will fall for that so I 835 00:29:34,110 --> 00:29:31,960 mean yeah you guys must thought hey 836 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:34,120 there's fields wide open here yeah it 837 00:29:39,420 --> 00:29:36,490 was pretty much an easy target pretty 838 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:39,430 easy to do as well approach probably the 839 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:41,890 same manufacturer so they already had 840 00:29:45,390 --> 00:29:43,690 made we got him changed a little bit so 841 00:29:47,670 --> 00:29:45,400 that they were honest and truthful and 842 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:47,680 said placebo instead of power and 843 00:29:52,740 --> 00:29:50,410 balance and then that's basically it and 844 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:52,750 they've taken off skeptics everywhere 845 00:29:57,810 --> 00:29:54,250 from all around the world or ordering 846 00:29:59,430 --> 00:29:57,820 them i have had sleepless nights putting 847 00:30:00,840 --> 00:29:59,440 in them into little postage packs and 848 00:30:03,900 --> 00:30:00,850 sending them off everywhere filling out 849 00:30:05,820 --> 00:30:03,910 all the forms and it's been great it's 850 00:30:07,020 --> 00:30:05,830 been great but I do want my life back so 851 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:07,030 now tom is going to have to fill out all 852 00:30:13,110 --> 00:30:09,570 the forms so how many of you solved 853 00:30:16,620 --> 00:30:13,120 we're on to our third batch of we were 854 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:16,630 going to initially try and get like 500 855 00:30:20,190 --> 00:30:18,250 and then the factory said you had to 856 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:20,200 have a thousand so we got a thousand and 857 00:30:26,340 --> 00:30:22,930 we managed to get those skeptics to take 858 00:30:29,610 --> 00:30:26,350 some which was nice and then we're up to 859 00:30:32,070 --> 00:30:29,620 our third batch of a thousand so we are 860 00:30:36,300 --> 00:30:32,080 actually we have sold a total of around 861 00:30:38,610 --> 00:30:36,310 2,600 already including 800 special Tam 862 00:30:41,820 --> 00:30:38,620 Australia 2010 ones that have been given 863 00:30:43,650 --> 00:30:41,830 out here at 10 and we got another 1600 864 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:43,660 on the way now that that may be the last 865 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:46,210 run we do but we'll see how it goes if 866 00:30:51,210 --> 00:30:49,210 the demand is there I guess we will try 867 00:30:52,710 --> 00:30:51,220 to provide so you've covered your costs 868 00:30:54,210 --> 00:30:52,720 and what are you doing with the profits 869 00:30:55,260 --> 00:30:54,220 I imagine being skeptics you're probably 870 00:30:58,770 --> 00:30:55,270 drinking it 871 00:31:00,120 --> 00:30:58,780 yeah no actually we put the word out we 872 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:00,130 didn't have any ideas what we were going 873 00:31:06,780 --> 00:31:03,090 to do with it we just said I'll we don't 874 00:31:10,170 --> 00:31:06,790 have take suggestions and so we done it 875 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:10,180 so hook is and blow never came up it did 876 00:31:15,660 --> 00:31:12,850 but we didn't we put it to a vote you 877 00:31:17,220 --> 00:31:15,670 know we didn't tell anyone yes it didn't 878 00:31:19,860 --> 00:31:17,230 get past the line on a vote basis 879 00:31:23,970 --> 00:31:19,870 unfortunately no we have managed to 880 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:23,980 donate 500 us to rotary's polio 881 00:31:29,100 --> 00:31:26,890 eradicate polio campaign campaign which 882 00:31:31,860 --> 00:31:29,110 was cool what we do the next little bit 883 00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:31,870 of profits because we're only making a 884 00:31:36,900 --> 00:31:33,760 little bit just around just for rounding 885 00:31:38,220 --> 00:31:36,910 and stuff we don't know we just sort of 886 00:31:40,170 --> 00:31:38,230 donate to who we feel like whoever's a 887 00:31:41,940 --> 00:31:40,180 well good cause well what I like is 888 00:31:45,170 --> 00:31:41,950 being skeptic sure you're donating to a 889 00:31:48,150 --> 00:31:45,180 pro vaccination clause yes yes yes 890 00:31:49,470 --> 00:31:48,160 that's what that that's what the yes I 891 00:31:51,300 --> 00:31:49,480 think it was all the guys from the stop 892 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:51,310 avn got on our website and said please 893 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:54,370 donate to this so when I go now let's do 894 00:31:58,290 --> 00:31:55,930 the plug work in the guy where can we 895 00:32:00,200 --> 00:31:58,300 listen to your podcast or your blog what 896 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:00,210 do you got out there okay it's at 897 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:03,730 skeptic bros calm and there's links to 898 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:05,530 the store there's links to the blog 899 00:32:08,850 --> 00:32:06,850 although we haven't put anything on the 900 00:32:11,570 --> 00:32:08,860 blog for a while and you can catch us on 901 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:11,580 facebook if you look for placebo band 902 00:32:18,090 --> 00:32:15,490 yeah there's lots of stuff on there it's 903 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:18,100 right now something I've been asking all 904 00:32:21,540 --> 00:32:19,930 the skeptics here most will end up on 905 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:21,550 the cutting room floor because it's been 906 00:32:25,350 --> 00:32:23,410 asking so many people what is the 907 00:32:27,270 --> 00:32:25,360 particular whew that that really gets 908 00:32:28,740 --> 00:32:27,280 you guys bird up obviously the power 909 00:32:29,910 --> 00:32:28,750 balance BAM is one of them and the fact 910 00:32:32,430 --> 00:32:29,920 that people who wear something on their 911 00:32:34,470 --> 00:32:32,440 wrists and be more powerful as skeptics 912 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:34,480 when you see something the thing you got 913 00:32:38,550 --> 00:32:35,890 to really hold yourself back from being 914 00:32:42,670 --> 00:32:38,560 rude about busting pregnant mare you're 915 00:32:50,750 --> 00:32:46,430 no yeah yeah well we're thinking about 916 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:50,760 looking into a bit more a lot of 917 00:32:57,110 --> 00:32:53,570 skeptics tough concentrates on human 918 00:33:00,440 --> 00:32:57,120 things but there's a lot of animal were 919 00:33:01,970 --> 00:33:00,450 out there and there's just as many 920 00:33:03,620 --> 00:33:01,980 treatments for animals deserts for 921 00:33:05,870 --> 00:33:03,630 people so I'm gonna have a squid at that 922 00:33:07,250 --> 00:33:05,880 maybe a bit later but we're gonna do 923 00:33:09,230 --> 00:33:07,260 heaps of different understand so you 924 00:33:11,090 --> 00:33:09,240 might get into the psychic pet stuff and 925 00:33:12,740 --> 00:33:11,100 you might get into the Fuller's 926 00:33:14,870 --> 00:33:12,750 homeopathy for animals they've got that 927 00:33:16,730 --> 00:33:14,880 going and the people that and people 928 00:33:19,580 --> 00:33:16,740 that it's not of it and there's not even 929 00:33:21,830 --> 00:33:19,590 psychiatry for animals it's white people 930 00:33:23,270 --> 00:33:21,840 can read that like is a telepathic or 931 00:33:25,580 --> 00:33:23,280 what are these people do they go to your 932 00:33:29,690 --> 00:33:25,590 animal they can tell what it's uh yeah 933 00:33:31,700 --> 00:33:29,700 that's pretty weird so there's people 934 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:31,710 that can do they like the Leonard Nimoy 935 00:33:35,930 --> 00:33:33,330 they can do a mind-meld with your cat 936 00:33:38,270 --> 00:33:35,940 yeah yeah and you know the cat will come 937 00:33:40,540 --> 00:33:38,280 in and say I'm hungry and I need to 938 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:40,550 sleep now thanks who would have thought 939 00:33:45,230 --> 00:33:43,410 and you also feel that the animal was 940 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:45,240 should be investigated I might leave 941 00:33:53,030 --> 00:33:50,970 that up to tom look what really you got 942 00:33:55,010 --> 00:33:53,040 the Hat you could easily be from the no 943 00:33:56,810 --> 00:33:55,020 agenda agency with that hat if you 944 00:33:58,520 --> 00:33:56,820 walked in and said I'm on a mission from 945 00:33:59,660 --> 00:33:58,530 adam curry and john c Dvorak people just 946 00:34:01,490 --> 00:33:59,670 throw their hands in the air and go what 947 00:34:03,590 --> 00:34:01,500 do you want because the Hat you've got 948 00:34:05,660 --> 00:34:03,600 it if the eye hat does open many doors 949 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:05,670 and sometimes secret doors that I didn't 950 00:34:09,230 --> 00:34:07,410 even know existed and by the way we do 951 00:34:11,810 --> 00:34:09,240 have to no agenda shirtlessness here 952 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:11,820 that I was kind of bumped into there now 953 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:14,130 like myself I find that you know they're 954 00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:16,290 out there and that like that and like 955 00:34:19,430 --> 00:34:17,760 skip the start of the universe I 956 00:34:21,530 --> 00:34:19,440 listened to both of them and get really 957 00:34:25,010 --> 00:34:21,540 confused but I enjoyed the confusion yes 958 00:34:26,930 --> 00:34:25,020 yes that's oh I do enjoy that now it 959 00:34:29,690 --> 00:34:26,940 took me a long while to listen to my 960 00:34:31,820 --> 00:34:29,700 first no agenda podcast I think they 961 00:34:33,230 --> 00:34:31,830 what are they run for 23 hours yeah 962 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:33,240 we'll do that they get on them bandits 963 00:34:35,990 --> 00:34:34,530 least an hour and a half and they did 964 00:34:38,389 --> 00:34:36,000 they do it twice a week and look you 965 00:34:40,010 --> 00:34:38,399 know and what they what they do is like 966 00:34:42,139 --> 00:34:40,020 nothing to do with skepticism it's very 967 00:34:43,669 --> 00:34:42,149 entertaining they're not all that it was 968 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:43,679 in the evidence based stuff but they 969 00:34:46,220 --> 00:34:45,450 talk about an earthquake machine man i 970 00:34:48,470 --> 00:34:46,230 love the 971 00:34:51,409 --> 00:34:48,480 if there's an earthquake machine I want 972 00:34:52,790 --> 00:34:51,419 one it's not all you know as skeptics 973 00:34:54,349 --> 00:34:52,800 will come to the conference with talking 974 00:34:56,869 --> 00:34:54,359 about skepticism and stuff and generally 975 00:34:58,700 --> 00:34:56,879 that's our bent but it's not always all 976 00:35:01,670 --> 00:34:58,710 skepticism one hundred percent and the 977 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:01,680 time I mean you know watch the goodies 978 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:03,690 and television and different TV shows 979 00:35:07,490 --> 00:35:05,970 and love Doctor Who and getting to know 980 00:35:10,700 --> 00:35:07,500 agenda and weird ideas just like 981 00:35:13,609 --> 00:35:10,710 everyone else yeah and what your little 982 00:35:17,260 --> 00:35:13,619 dabbling in the up be in the dark art Oh 983 00:35:18,890 --> 00:35:17,270 in the dark ah my little dabbling 984 00:35:20,690 --> 00:35:18,900 everyone's got their own bit of woe 985 00:35:21,980 --> 00:35:20,700 everyone's got their own bit of wood so 986 00:35:23,420 --> 00:35:21,990 I mean even Brian Dunning takes 987 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:23,430 multivitamins when he feels he's getting 988 00:35:34,940 --> 00:35:32,130 sick well there's a new book out at the 989 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:34,950 moment now it isn't one that everybody 990 00:35:38,180 --> 00:35:36,690 is going to be rushing for but it's one 991 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:38,190 that we haven't seen in Australia I 992 00:35:42,470 --> 00:35:39,930 don't know if we have it all who've we 993 00:35:44,450 --> 00:35:42,480 got here you're the guy put together my 994 00:35:46,130 --> 00:35:44,460 name is Warren bonnet and we don't have 995 00:35:49,070 --> 00:35:46,140 anything quite like it so there's never 996 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:49,080 been an atheist short story compendium 997 00:35:56,420 --> 00:35:51,810 in Australia ever not to my knowledge 998 00:35:58,430 --> 00:35:56,430 the the only really prominent books that 999 00:36:01,580 --> 00:35:58,440 have come out on on atheism in Australia 1000 00:36:04,210 --> 00:36:01,590 Phillip Adams is Robin Williams did one 1001 00:36:07,490 --> 00:36:04,220 Terry laned one there's a number of 1002 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:07,500 self-published books to buy people like 1003 00:36:12,710 --> 00:36:10,050 Brian Baker but no nothing quite like 1004 00:36:13,790 --> 00:36:12,720 this so maybe there's not a demand for 1005 00:36:16,070 --> 00:36:13,800 you're going to send yourself broke 1006 00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:16,080 doing this little project well the 1007 00:36:20,990 --> 00:36:18,000 immediate of the demand so far seems to 1008 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:21,000 have been very high I run a bookshop a 1009 00:36:25,940 --> 00:36:23,130 science book shop up in Queensland and 1010 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:25,950 it's now our best-selling book by a long 1011 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:28,770 way hmm and what sort of people did you 1012 00:36:33,230 --> 00:36:30,930 rope in forward and how hard was it to 1013 00:36:35,780 --> 00:36:33,240 get people for did anyone say I nomads I 1014 00:36:39,260 --> 00:36:35,790 don't be part of that a couple of people 1015 00:36:40,980 --> 00:36:39,270 said no but they also express their 1016 00:36:44,490 --> 00:36:40,990 regrets that they couldn't 1017 00:36:46,350 --> 00:36:44,500 can contribute to it but most of the 1018 00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:46,360 people that we approached were very 1019 00:36:54,510 --> 00:36:48,250 positive about it up approached about 80 1020 00:36:57,900 --> 00:36:54,520 people in total a little over 50 to 60 1021 00:37:02,100 --> 00:36:57,910 sent me something based upon a brief I 1022 00:37:04,020 --> 00:37:02,110 set them and we selected 33 a lot of 1023 00:37:05,580 --> 00:37:04,030 people including my parents we've still 1024 00:37:08,010 --> 00:37:05,590 got a problem with atheism because they 1025 00:37:10,770 --> 00:37:08,020 ask well what do you guys believe in and 1026 00:37:13,410 --> 00:37:10,780 that's not the right question is it no 1027 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:13,420 not really it's it's not so much about 1028 00:37:20,250 --> 00:37:17,050 what we believe in but we're simply 1029 00:37:22,140 --> 00:37:20,260 expressing desire that a belief in 1030 00:37:24,270 --> 00:37:22,150 something supernatural shouldn't form 1031 00:37:27,540 --> 00:37:24,280 such a prominent place in things like 1032 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:27,550 public policy and politics and it's only 1033 00:37:32,010 --> 00:37:29,290 really in the last few years and let's 1034 00:37:33,180 --> 00:37:32,020 face it since nine eleven that atheists 1035 00:37:35,910 --> 00:37:33,190 have started to come out of the woodwork 1036 00:37:38,390 --> 00:37:35,920 a bit because I think before then we all 1037 00:37:40,730 --> 00:37:38,400 sort of had an unwritten agreement 1038 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:40,740 believers and non-believers alike that 1039 00:37:46,260 --> 00:37:43,450 you know you can believe your thing 1040 00:37:49,530 --> 00:37:46,270 that's fine we don't and we think it's a 1041 00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:49,540 little bit silly but that's okay and one 1042 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:51,250 day it'll wear away and there seemed to 1043 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:53,050 be this sort of unwritten agreement 1044 00:37:59,880 --> 00:37:56,170 about it but we've seen a resurgence in 1045 00:38:01,290 --> 00:37:59,890 in political life and as well as big 1046 00:38:03,690 --> 00:38:01,300 political statements being made like 1047 00:38:06,380 --> 00:38:03,700 flying planes into buildings so I think 1048 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:06,390 that it's that has formed a catalyst for 1049 00:38:13,310 --> 00:38:10,810 making us a little bit more loud and 1050 00:38:15,450 --> 00:38:13,320 where do the other religions like 1051 00:38:18,750 --> 00:38:15,460 Scientology come into it is that where 1052 00:38:21,150 --> 00:38:18,760 you have to feel activism or is that 1053 00:38:24,330 --> 00:38:21,160 just one you're happy to let lie now I 1054 00:38:26,820 --> 00:38:24,340 think I don't but as an atheist you were 1055 00:38:29,700 --> 00:38:26,830 fairly much equal opportunity hey 1056 00:38:32,180 --> 00:38:29,710 theists in that if if it falls into the 1057 00:38:36,030 --> 00:38:32,190 realm of the supernatural we tend to 1058 00:38:38,910 --> 00:38:36,040 want to do something about it I guess 1059 00:38:41,220 --> 00:38:38,920 but it's mostly when it starts to have a 1060 00:38:42,930 --> 00:38:41,230 bigger political effect that we're more 1061 00:38:45,750 --> 00:38:42,940 concerned so when it starts to affect 1062 00:38:49,109 --> 00:38:45,760 health care or education and things like 1063 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:49,119 that but look it's got so much going for 1064 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:50,890 it every religion I don't care which one 1065 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:52,690 it is is offering something pretty good 1066 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:54,170 at the end of your life 1067 00:38:58,630 --> 00:38:56,930 that sounds really great now if there's 1068 00:39:00,280 --> 00:38:58,640 a chance that that is the case that 1069 00:39:02,020 --> 00:39:00,290 there's this great place called heaven 1070 00:39:04,870 --> 00:39:02,030 or something at the end of the life that 1071 00:39:06,670 --> 00:39:04,880 we can trance move beyond our mortal 1072 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:06,680 self wouldn't that be a really good idea 1073 00:39:10,950 --> 00:39:09,410 to maybe be fun it would be but it 1074 00:39:13,450 --> 00:39:10,960 doesn't change what's here and now 1075 00:39:16,450 --> 00:39:13,460 whether there is a life after death 1076 00:39:17,890 --> 00:39:16,460 doesn't really change what we need to do 1077 00:39:20,530 --> 00:39:17,900 with the planet here and now and 1078 00:39:25,420 --> 00:39:20,540 ourselves here and now and to use that 1079 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:25,430 as a as a way of not dealing with things 1080 00:39:31,030 --> 00:39:28,850 here an hour today is I think a little 1081 00:39:32,170 --> 00:39:31,040 bit problematic and to be honest I don't 1082 00:39:35,470 --> 00:39:32,180 think there are many religious people 1083 00:39:38,140 --> 00:39:35,480 that would do that and also I think that 1084 00:39:40,810 --> 00:39:38,150 the idea of an afterlife is a lot less 1085 00:39:42,700 --> 00:39:40,820 consoling than people think they in that 1086 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:42,710 if you just go to any funeral in any 1087 00:39:49,330 --> 00:39:45,170 church anywhere people are not feeling 1088 00:39:51,460 --> 00:39:49,340 very happy if you genuinely felt deep in 1089 00:39:53,170 --> 00:39:51,470 your bones that you were going to a 1090 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:53,180 better place and one day you were going 1091 00:40:00,430 --> 00:39:55,690 to meet them there would not be that 1092 00:40:03,970 --> 00:40:00,440 intensity of sadness I surely believe 1093 00:40:08,470 --> 00:40:03,980 that there is a kernel of doubt in most 1094 00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:08,480 people in most believers worldview so to 1095 00:40:12,220 --> 00:40:10,730 get many people more particularly 1096 00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:12,230 because you've got the high-profile 1097 00:40:16,570 --> 00:40:13,760 bookshop there which is I assume an 1098 00:40:17,980 --> 00:40:16,580 atheist bookshop as well it's more it's 1099 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:17,990 not so much an atheist bookshop although 1100 00:40:22,630 --> 00:40:19,970 we do have an atheist section unlike 1101 00:40:25,300 --> 00:40:22,640 most shops it's not included in a 1102 00:40:28,890 --> 00:40:25,310 religious section we do stock a wide 1103 00:40:32,350 --> 00:40:28,900 range of them but we're more about 1104 00:40:34,210 --> 00:40:32,360 science and philosophy and we do that 1105 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:34,220 the theme of the shop is actually where 1106 00:40:43,570 --> 00:40:36,650 science meets art because they're the 1107 00:40:45,130 --> 00:40:43,580 two main ways that people engage in in 1108 00:40:47,500 --> 00:40:45,140 the world around them that the two 1109 00:40:50,290 --> 00:40:47,510 different kinds of approaches as people 1110 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:50,300 think of any university departments 1111 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:52,370 being split into the sciences and the 1112 00:40:56,590 --> 00:40:54,170 arts or the humanities and the arts and 1113 00:40:59,380 --> 00:40:56,600 two different modes of thinking and out 1114 00:41:00,790 --> 00:40:59,390 our premise for the shop was to cross 1115 00:41:03,310 --> 00:41:00,800 pollinate between these two different 1116 00:41:06,430 --> 00:41:03,320 disciplines and something that always 1117 00:41:06,980 --> 00:41:06,440 needs to be mentioned as well is atheist 1118 00:41:13,130 --> 00:41:06,990 is 1119 00:41:16,010 --> 00:41:13,140 would probably be along the lines of 1120 00:41:17,630 --> 00:41:16,020 being anti theist because i just think 1121 00:41:20,420 --> 00:41:17,640 there are too many problems with it to 1122 00:41:23,570 --> 00:41:20,430 ignore that's not too that's not 1123 00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:23,580 suggesting automatically that will have 1124 00:41:28,550 --> 00:41:26,880 an automatic replacement for them it's 1125 00:41:30,740 --> 00:41:28,560 just to suggest that these things are 1126 00:41:33,710 --> 00:41:30,750 problematic and that in the 21st century 1127 00:41:35,720 --> 00:41:33,720 after several hundred years of evidence 1128 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:35,730 based reasoning that we possibly have 1129 00:41:40,220 --> 00:41:37,770 something better to replace them with if 1130 00:41:43,540 --> 00:41:40,230 we just put our minds to it and what's 1131 00:41:49,010 --> 00:41:43,550 one of your favorite essays in the book 1132 00:41:50,780 --> 00:41:49,020 there are several Jane Karos book yeah 1133 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:50,790 yeah her essays from a feminist 1134 00:41:54,890 --> 00:41:52,770 perspective that's right I like Kylie 1135 00:41:57,050 --> 00:41:54,900 Sturgis as well Robin Williams is good 1136 00:41:59,330 --> 00:41:57,060 the part-time a distance isn't it yeah 1137 00:42:03,310 --> 00:41:59,340 what he's having a bet each way is he no 1138 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:03,320 not really it's just that it's a more a 1139 00:42:08,150 --> 00:42:06,090 conversational piece where he's saying 1140 00:42:11,420 --> 00:42:08,160 that he just doesn't cross his mind on a 1141 00:42:13,940 --> 00:42:11,430 daily basis but every now and again I 1142 00:42:17,240 --> 00:42:13,950 guess as a science show host he butts up 1143 00:42:19,670 --> 00:42:17,250 against religious thinking which is 1144 00:42:22,910 --> 00:42:19,680 contrary to evidence-based thinking and 1145 00:42:24,890 --> 00:42:22,920 so he will occasionally put on his 1146 00:42:26,780 --> 00:42:24,900 atheist cap but so I think it's a little 1147 00:42:29,570 --> 00:42:26,790 bit along those lines well the reason 1148 00:42:31,910 --> 00:42:29,580 debate over same-sex marriages I met a 1149 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:31,920 few people and when it came down to us a 1150 00:42:34,609 --> 00:42:33,570 ball what's your problem with it and 1151 00:42:36,740 --> 00:42:34,619 they would say something on the lines 1152 00:42:39,859 --> 00:42:36,750 well you know it's not right according 1153 00:42:41,540 --> 00:42:39,869 to the Bible and that may be the case 1154 00:42:43,340 --> 00:42:41,550 the way they interpret the Bible but 1155 00:42:45,020 --> 00:42:43,350 that also means that you've just given 1156 00:42:48,980 --> 00:42:45,030 up thinking about the issue for yourself 1157 00:42:50,630 --> 00:42:48,990 yes and my big problem with that 1158 00:42:53,090 --> 00:42:50,640 approach is that the Bible might have 1159 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:53,100 maybe three or four lines dedicated to 1160 00:43:00,130 --> 00:42:56,130 that that is not enough to make a 1161 00:43:04,070 --> 00:43:00,140 decision on a complex ethical issues in 1162 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:04,080 the modern society if like things on 1163 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:05,850 abortion and homosexuality and so on 1164 00:43:11,630 --> 00:43:08,450 where there is not that much to go on 1165 00:43:14,359 --> 00:43:11,640 there's more on not eating shellfish 1166 00:43:16,310 --> 00:43:14,369 there's more on on killing your children 1167 00:43:17,990 --> 00:43:16,320 if they're disappearing and yet somehow 1168 00:43:20,090 --> 00:43:18,000 they have the ethical framework to 1169 00:43:21,980 --> 00:43:20,100 navigate away from those things 1170 00:43:24,650 --> 00:43:21,990 that keen of towards things which 1171 00:43:28,430 --> 00:43:24,660 support another ideology and it's that 1172 00:43:30,050 --> 00:43:28,440 I'm more interested in in that the Bible 1173 00:43:31,730 --> 00:43:30,060 as itself if you look at the whole thing 1174 00:43:33,170 --> 00:43:31,740 have you got a favourite book of it I 1175 00:43:34,910 --> 00:43:33,180 mean and this is one thing I like to try 1176 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:34,920 and remind me of a lot of atheists do 1177 00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:36,090 read the Bible because you've got to 1178 00:43:39,770 --> 00:43:38,010 know what you're not sometimes and if 1179 00:43:41,630 --> 00:43:39,780 you got a favorite book oh yeah busy bit 1180 00:43:45,610 --> 00:43:41,640 of the New Testament you know you be a 1181 00:43:47,930 --> 00:43:45,620 mark that's a pretty cool mark 1182 00:43:52,700 --> 00:43:47,940 revelations man there is an acid trip 1183 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:52,710 yeah Leviticus mean blood sex school I 1184 00:43:55,970 --> 00:43:53,970 mean you've got to go for it really i 1185 00:44:02,060 --> 00:43:55,980 mean there's a there's the finest horror 1186 00:44:03,860 --> 00:44:02,070 movie ever made man yeah you do right 1187 00:44:05,090 --> 00:44:03,870 there it's got it all happening there is 1188 00:44:06,530 --> 00:44:05,100 there an essay in the book that is 1189 00:44:08,740 --> 00:44:06,540 proven to be controversial of people 1190 00:44:11,900 --> 00:44:08,750 sort of coming back and biting you about 1191 00:44:14,900 --> 00:44:11,910 well the ones that I've most been 1192 00:44:17,300 --> 00:44:14,910 questioned on so far is the first essay 1193 00:44:19,540 --> 00:44:17,310 by chris stevenson on the history of 1194 00:44:23,150 --> 00:44:19,550 free thought and atheism in australia 1195 00:44:25,250 --> 00:44:23,160 because she's writing a she's contending 1196 00:44:27,890 --> 00:44:25,260 with a great deal of history which talks 1197 00:44:29,090 --> 00:44:27,900 about australia's being a christian 1198 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:29,100 nation which we're seeing a resurgence 1199 00:44:34,730 --> 00:44:31,410 of in the popular media at the moment 1200 00:44:36,500 --> 00:44:34,740 it's it simply doesn't seem to bear out 1201 00:44:39,170 --> 00:44:36,510 when you look at a lot of historical 1202 00:44:41,750 --> 00:44:39,180 documents the way history was formed and 1203 00:44:43,910 --> 00:44:41,760 where the the ethos of australia of mate 1204 00:44:47,650 --> 00:44:43,920 ship and a of relying on yourself and 1205 00:44:50,750 --> 00:44:47,660 their individuality that that kind of 1206 00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:50,760 part of the Australian psyche which we 1207 00:44:56,240 --> 00:44:53,690 all seem to love and almost revere 1208 00:44:59,150 --> 00:44:56,250 really doesn't come from a religious 1209 00:45:02,840 --> 00:44:59,160 basis and so to talk about Christie a 1210 00:45:04,790 --> 00:45:02,850 Christian nation is some seems to be 1211 00:45:08,330 --> 00:45:04,800 quite false and she's working up that 1212 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:08,340 into being a book at the moment because 1213 00:45:12,950 --> 00:45:10,170 there's a lot of material she was only 1214 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:12,960 intending to write a short essay and but 1215 00:45:17,150 --> 00:45:14,490 then she ended up writing about twenty 1216 00:45:18,650 --> 00:45:17,160 thousand words but at least the 1217 00:45:20,450 --> 00:45:18,660 Americans give lip service to the 1218 00:45:21,860 --> 00:45:20,460 separation of church and state we 1219 00:45:24,230 --> 00:45:21,870 haven't got that we've got the Church of 1220 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:24,240 England at the top yes that's right but 1221 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:28,050 instead interestingly our separation of 1222 00:45:32,470 --> 00:45:30,810 church and state clause section 116 of 1223 00:45:35,609 --> 00:45:32,480 the Constitution 1224 00:45:37,830 --> 00:45:35,619 is almost identical to the Americans 1225 00:45:42,010 --> 00:45:37,840 separation of church and state clause 1226 00:45:44,740 --> 00:45:42,020 they're very very similar it's funny I'm 1227 00:45:47,050 --> 00:45:44,750 the eye I never hear of this clause no 1228 00:45:51,030 --> 00:45:47,060 no it and yet it's it's almost identical 1229 00:45:53,890 --> 00:45:51,040 but in the test case in America they 1230 00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:53,900 that the test legal case they ended up 1231 00:45:57,670 --> 00:45:55,970 ruling in favor of this separation of 1232 00:45:59,140 --> 00:45:57,680 the church and state because it's very 1233 00:46:00,640 --> 00:45:59,150 clear from the intentions of the 1234 00:46:03,790 --> 00:46:00,650 founding fathers that's exactly what 1235 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:03,800 they intended and so did ours pretty 1236 00:46:11,950 --> 00:46:09,530 much however the here our test case was 1237 00:46:15,430 --> 00:46:11,960 the defense of government schools and 1238 00:46:18,220 --> 00:46:15,440 that ruled in favor of there being some 1239 00:46:20,950 --> 00:46:18,230 support for religion from by the state 1240 00:46:23,230 --> 00:46:20,960 in in this country and do you think 1241 00:46:25,510 --> 00:46:23,240 Richard Dawkins does a little bit more 1242 00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:25,520 harm than good sometimes banging around 1243 00:46:30,490 --> 00:46:28,850 sometimes hassling the allure gence and 1244 00:46:33,370 --> 00:46:30,500 gets a bit of a bad names of smartass 1245 00:46:35,349 --> 00:46:33,380 for the cause sometimes is he certainly 1246 00:46:37,150 --> 00:46:35,359 you know he's the man he's intellectual 1247 00:46:39,130 --> 00:46:37,160 he's got it all going on but he also 1248 00:46:41,740 --> 00:46:39,140 does have a knack of rubbing people the 1249 00:46:43,660 --> 00:46:41,750 wrong way well I think that's going to 1250 00:46:44,830 --> 00:46:43,670 be the case almost no matter what you 1251 00:46:46,990 --> 00:46:44,840 say in the world you're going to rub 1252 00:46:51,849 --> 00:46:47,000 someone the wrong way now there is a 1253 00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:51,859 very it's very easy to to attack someone 1254 00:46:57,370 --> 00:46:54,890 when they state their view and when they 1255 00:46:59,310 --> 00:46:57,380 state their view with passion then they 1256 00:47:02,940 --> 00:46:59,320 present themselves as an easy target 1257 00:47:05,620 --> 00:47:02,950 there's a lot of people who say that 1258 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:05,630 atheists strident I think they're 1259 00:47:11,770 --> 00:47:08,290 strident arrogant milligan militant 1260 00:47:14,460 --> 00:47:11,780 fundamentalist an evangelical and or 1261 00:47:16,930 --> 00:47:14,470 even religious in their further and I 1262 00:47:18,580 --> 00:47:16,940 might my answer to all of it and it 1263 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:18,590 always gets a smile yeah that's right 1264 00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:20,450 and my answer to all of the myths is 1265 00:47:25,570 --> 00:47:23,810 bollocks really if you take away the 1266 00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:25,580 meanings of all of those words and 1267 00:47:29,710 --> 00:47:26,930 supplant them with something else then 1268 00:47:31,540 --> 00:47:29,720 perhaps but I always go to the most 1269 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:31,550 extreme example of them because it's one 1270 00:47:34,870 --> 00:47:32,930 we get almost as often and that is 1271 00:47:36,970 --> 00:47:34,880 militant and then you just do a simple 1272 00:47:39,620 --> 00:47:36,980 thought experiment okay I want you to 1273 00:47:42,650 --> 00:47:39,630 examine in your mind a 1274 00:47:44,500 --> 00:47:42,660 a militant religious person what do they 1275 00:47:47,030 --> 00:47:44,510 look like how do they express themselves 1276 00:47:49,940 --> 00:47:47,040 and then do the same I want you to now 1277 00:47:52,580 --> 00:47:49,950 imagine a militant atheist which one of 1278 00:47:54,140 --> 00:47:52,590 these is picking up a gun or stripping 1279 00:47:55,580 --> 00:47:54,150 bonds to themselves and flying planes 1280 00:47:56,810 --> 00:47:55,590 into buildings and which one of them is 1281 00:48:00,980 --> 00:47:56,820 getting a little bit hot under the 1282 00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:00,990 collar during a debate on TV it's it's 1283 00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:03,930 not it's not an appropriate use of the 1284 00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:06,450 words to describe people who are merely 1285 00:48:11,930 --> 00:48:08,730 passionately representing their points 1286 00:48:12,980 --> 00:48:11,940 of view as there has been described for 1287 00:48:16,100 --> 00:48:12,990 Dawkins I think he's done an 1288 00:48:18,290 --> 00:48:16,110 extraordinary amount of good not simply 1289 00:48:21,350 --> 00:48:18,300 because some of his atheistic stance 1290 00:48:22,970 --> 00:48:21,360 them I think primarily because is one of 1291 00:48:25,540 --> 00:48:22,980 the finest science educators I've ever 1292 00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:25,550 seen he's he's done more to promote 1293 00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:27,810 science in the world than pretty well 1294 00:48:32,300 --> 00:48:29,130 anyone other than maybe David 1295 00:48:34,190 --> 00:48:32,310 Attenborough and what do you hope to 1296 00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:34,200 achieve with the book obviously you'd 1297 00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:35,850 like to sell a few copies because you 1298 00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:37,530 run a bookshop and you might like to do 1299 00:48:41,660 --> 00:48:40,050 another volume if it goes well but were 1300 00:48:43,700 --> 00:48:41,670 you trying to think of it as being 1301 00:48:48,130 --> 00:48:43,710 something to maybe get into schools or 1302 00:48:51,500 --> 00:48:48,140 as a piece of activism I think it was a 1303 00:48:55,550 --> 00:48:51,510 sort of a focusing of attention for a 1304 00:48:57,350 --> 00:48:55,560 lot of other atheists and agnostics on 1305 00:49:00,110 --> 00:48:57,360 it and how do they sit like you know it 1306 00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:00,120 is it like gays and bisexuals you know 1307 00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:01,890 guys think that bisexuals are just 1308 00:49:05,270 --> 00:49:03,090 people who haven't made up their mind 1309 00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:05,280 yet the atheists feel that way about the 1310 00:49:11,260 --> 00:49:08,370 agnostics is a bit of tension I think 1311 00:49:13,700 --> 00:49:11,270 there is it's largely academic tension 1312 00:49:18,220 --> 00:49:13,710 because most agnostics when you come 1313 00:49:21,230 --> 00:49:18,230 down to it still predominantly atheist 1314 00:49:24,740 --> 00:49:21,240 most atheists simply regard their belief 1315 00:49:26,390 --> 00:49:24,750 is I haven't found evidence that I find 1316 00:49:28,820 --> 00:49:26,400 compelling to believe in something and 1317 00:49:31,970 --> 00:49:28,830 agnostics sort of have that same 1318 00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:31,980 viewpoint except they leave it the door 1319 00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:33,570 a little bit more open so they're more 1320 00:49:38,180 --> 00:49:35,850 polite is that what's going on or have 1321 00:49:41,030 --> 00:49:38,190 they just not decided to pick a side and 1322 00:49:43,190 --> 00:49:41,040 lose friendship you might have a point 1323 00:50:08,520 --> 00:49:43,200 that I don't really know I think it's a 1324 00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:12,100 hello from a cable car in San Francisco 1325 00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:15,170 California Richard Saunders here wishing 1326 00:50:20,470 --> 00:50:16,970 all listeners to the skeptics own a 1327 00:50:22,900 --> 00:50:20,480 successful 2000m 11 we've had some major 1328 00:50:25,750 --> 00:50:22,910 victories in 2010 so let's keep that 1329 00:50:28,390 --> 00:50:25,760 momentum going and a big shout out to 1330 00:50:43,670 --> 00:50:28,400 all my skeptical podcasting colleagues 1331 00:50:52,380 --> 00:50:47,040 now it's time for dr. Rachel reports 1332 00:50:55,559 --> 00:50:52,390 with dr. Rachel Dunlop hello everyone 1333 00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:55,569 and welcome to dr. Reggie reports well 1334 00:50:58,620 --> 00:50:56,890 we're on a bit of a roll here in 1335 00:51:00,930 --> 00:50:58,630 Australia at the moment with crackdowns 1336 00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:00,940 on alternative medicine and there was 1337 00:51:04,049 --> 00:51:02,530 even more news this week with the 1338 00:51:06,150 --> 00:51:04,059 announcement of the removal of 1339 00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:06,160 complementary medicines from sale by the 1340 00:51:12,180 --> 00:51:08,130 TGA the Therapeutic Goods Administration 1341 00:51:14,220 --> 00:51:12,190 in a spot check on around 400 products 1342 00:51:16,589 --> 00:51:14,230 nine out of ten were found to breach 1343 00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:16,599 regulations and as a result a 1344 00:51:20,430 --> 00:51:18,490 significant number of products were 1345 00:51:24,089 --> 00:51:20,440 removed from the Australian register of 1346 00:51:27,059 --> 00:51:24,099 therapeutic goods or the artg which 1347 00:51:28,670 --> 00:51:27,069 currently lists around 10,000 250 1348 00:51:30,750 --> 00:51:28,680 complementary medicines including 1349 00:51:33,240 --> 00:51:30,760 vitamins minerals and herbal 1350 00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:33,250 preparations the breaches which were 1351 00:51:38,069 --> 00:51:35,170 largely related to false claims of 1352 00:51:39,809 --> 00:51:38,079 curative powers on the labels means the 1353 00:51:42,930 --> 00:51:39,819 products can no longer be legally sold 1354 00:51:45,359 --> 00:51:42,940 in Australia however which products have 1355 00:51:47,730 --> 00:51:45,369 been removed was not revealed by the TGA 1356 00:51:49,589 --> 00:51:47,740 now in Australia the complementary 1357 00:51:52,380 --> 00:51:49,599 medicine business is worth over four 1358 00:51:54,180 --> 00:51:52,390 billion dollars a year but evidence that 1359 00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:54,190 these products actually work is not 1360 00:51:58,620 --> 00:51:56,650 required by the TGA before they are 1361 00:52:00,210 --> 00:51:58,630 assigned an official-looking number and 1362 00:52:02,339 --> 00:52:00,220 appear on the shelf of your local 1363 00:52:06,210 --> 00:52:02,349 pharmacy next two aspirin and cough 1364 00:52:08,579 --> 00:52:06,220 medicine instead the TGA operates a 1365 00:52:11,309 --> 00:52:08,589 self-assessment online registration 1366 00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:11,319 system and undertakes post-market 1367 00:52:15,420 --> 00:52:13,690 reviews where approximately twenty-five 1368 00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:15,430 percent of products are randomly 1369 00:52:20,549 --> 00:52:17,650 selected for a review of their labels 1370 00:52:23,339 --> 00:52:20,559 product specifications and a summary of 1371 00:52:26,130 --> 00:52:23,349 their evidence now although the TGA 1372 00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:26,140 website states quote evidence must be 1373 00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:28,450 held by sponsors which demonstrates the 1374 00:52:33,990 --> 00:52:31,210 indications and claims are true valid 1375 00:52:36,089 --> 00:52:34,000 and not misleading this latest review 1376 00:52:39,180 --> 00:52:36,099 suggests this may not always be the case 1377 00:52:41,010 --> 00:52:39,190 a second issue for consumers is that 1378 00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:41,020 even when products are removed from the 1379 00:52:45,990 --> 00:52:43,690 listing manufacturers can simply go back 1380 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:46,000 online re register the product under a 1381 00:52:49,470 --> 00:52:48,010 different name and effectively get it 1382 00:52:52,470 --> 00:52:49,480 back on the shelves within 1383 00:52:54,390 --> 00:52:52,480 24 hours so there are two types of drugs 1384 00:52:56,820 --> 00:52:54,400 and clinical devices controlled by the 1385 00:52:58,710 --> 00:52:56,830 TGA there are those which have been 1386 00:53:01,290 --> 00:52:58,720 evaluated for safety quality and 1387 00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:01,300 efficacy and these are designated with a 1388 00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:05,410 number preceded by a UST are or aust are 1389 00:53:10,620 --> 00:53:08,050 for registered an example of this kind 1390 00:53:12,540 --> 00:53:10,630 of product is antibiotics or hay fever 1391 00:53:15,090 --> 00:53:12,550 medication bought over the counter at 1392 00:53:18,030 --> 00:53:15,100 the pharmacy or even low-risk products 1393 00:53:21,030 --> 00:53:18,040 such as cough medicines and according to 1394 00:53:23,370 --> 00:53:21,040 the TGA website the degree of assessment 1395 00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:23,380 and regulation they undergo is rigorous 1396 00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:25,570 and detailed with sponsors being 1397 00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:27,850 required to provide comprehensive safety 1398 00:53:35,220 --> 00:53:31,570 quality and efficacy data on the flip 1399 00:53:37,950 --> 00:53:35,230 side the aust l products or au stl for 1400 00:53:39,290 --> 00:53:37,960 listed are called listed products and 1401 00:53:42,690 --> 00:53:39,300 include complementary and supplementary 1402 00:53:45,420 --> 00:53:42,700 medicines such as homeopathy ear candles 1403 00:53:47,730 --> 00:53:45,430 and detox kits and many have not gone 1404 00:53:50,660 --> 00:53:47,740 through clinical testing or indeed have 1405 00:53:53,010 --> 00:53:50,670 any scientific evidence that they work 1406 00:53:55,230 --> 00:53:53,020 listed medicines are considered by the 1407 00:53:57,540 --> 00:53:55,240 TGA to be of lower risk than registered 1408 00:54:00,510 --> 00:53:57,550 medicines thus they are not assessed for 1409 00:54:03,270 --> 00:54:00,520 efficacy by the TGA but only for quality 1410 00:54:05,940 --> 00:54:03,280 and safety so clearly the problem here 1411 00:54:07,950 --> 00:54:05,950 is the tj's reliance on self-assessment 1412 00:54:10,950 --> 00:54:07,960 as a means for determining a products 1413 00:54:13,380 --> 00:54:10,960 efficacy but it gets worse when you 1414 00:54:16,470 --> 00:54:13,390 scrutinize precisely what they define as 1415 00:54:18,570 --> 00:54:16,480 evidence for these products so there are 1416 00:54:21,540 --> 00:54:18,580 two streams of evidence accepted by the 1417 00:54:24,300 --> 00:54:21,550 TGA one being scientific and the other 1418 00:54:26,609 --> 00:54:24,310 traditional use and traditional use 1419 00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:26,619 refers to documentary evidence that a 1420 00:54:30,990 --> 00:54:28,570 substance has been used over three or 1421 00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:31,000 more generations for a specific health 1422 00:54:36,330 --> 00:54:34,210 related or medicinal purpose traditional 1423 00:54:38,940 --> 00:54:36,340 therapies according to the TGA include 1424 00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:38,950 traditional Chinese medicine traditional 1425 00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:41,410 era Vedic medicine traditional Western 1426 00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:43,690 herbal medicine traditional homeopathic 1427 00:54:48,870 --> 00:54:45,970 medicine aromatherapy and other 1428 00:54:50,609 --> 00:54:48,880 indigenous medicines further there are 1429 00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:50,619 also increasing levels of evidence 1430 00:54:54,510 --> 00:54:52,930 within these so the greater your 1431 00:54:57,240 --> 00:54:54,520 evidence the more claims you are 1432 00:54:59,340 --> 00:54:57,250 entitled to make about your product for 1433 00:55:01,770 --> 00:54:59,350 example three independent written 1434 00:55:03,300 --> 00:55:01,780 histories of use in the classical or 1435 00:55:06,510 --> 00:55:03,310 traditional medical literature 1436 00:55:08,670 --> 00:55:06,520 are acceptable as evidence and or the 1437 00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:08,680 availability of your product through any 1438 00:55:13,830 --> 00:55:11,370 country's government public dispensaries 1439 00:55:17,430 --> 00:55:13,840 so this includes chiropractic in 1440 00:55:19,050 --> 00:55:17,440 Australia and homeopathy in the UK now 1441 00:55:20,940 --> 00:55:19,060 recently the TGA announced a 1442 00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:20,950 comprehensive review of the way it 1443 00:55:25,380 --> 00:55:23,290 communicates regulatory processes and 1444 00:55:27,630 --> 00:55:25,390 decisions to the public and this is in 1445 00:55:30,570 --> 00:55:27,640 an effort to improve transparency of the 1446 00:55:33,330 --> 00:55:30,580 organization and the aim of the overhaul 1447 00:55:35,010 --> 00:55:33,340 is multifaceted but one aspect is to 1448 00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:35,020 ensure that the Australian public is 1449 00:55:39,810 --> 00:55:37,330 better informed about the benefits and 1450 00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:39,820 risks of therapeutic goods including all 1451 00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:42,450 medicines and devices and in particular 1452 00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:45,850 the TGA aims to inform consumers that 1453 00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:48,850 they do not test austell drugs and as 1454 00:55:53,910 --> 00:55:50,890 such cannot guarantee that they work as 1455 00:55:56,190 --> 00:55:53,920 claimed so the TGA will continue to 1456 00:55:58,130 --> 00:55:56,200 accept austell listed products for 1457 00:56:00,720 --> 00:55:58,140 listing under the clearly flawed 1458 00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:00,730 self-assessment program and as a method 1459 00:56:05,130 --> 00:56:03,130 for improving transparency will inform 1460 00:56:08,070 --> 00:56:05,140 consumers that their system doesn't 1461 00:56:10,260 --> 00:56:08,080 really work it's also worth noting that 1462 00:56:12,780 --> 00:56:10,270 as a consumer you are free to make a 1463 00:56:15,030 --> 00:56:12,790 complaint about a TGA listed product and 1464 00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:15,040 if the TGA agrees that this product has 1465 00:56:19,530 --> 00:56:17,290 breached regulations the complaints 1466 00:56:22,140 --> 00:56:19,540 resolution panel will issue a retraction 1467 00:56:24,330 --> 00:56:22,150 order to the company however if the 1468 00:56:26,850 --> 00:56:24,340 company chooses to ignore the sanctions 1469 00:56:29,130 --> 00:56:26,860 the TGA will not enforce them and 1470 00:56:31,350 --> 00:56:29,140 between thirty and fifty percent of 1471 00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:31,360 companies which get called out for 1472 00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:33,370 making false claims do ignore these 1473 00:56:39,540 --> 00:56:35,770 sanctions and the TGA has never made a 1474 00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:39,550 prosecution for refusing to comply now 1475 00:56:43,650 --> 00:56:41,530 another issue concerning transparency 1476 00:56:45,990 --> 00:56:43,660 for the general public is the results of 1477 00:56:48,150 --> 00:56:46,000 an investigation by the TGA do not 1478 00:56:50,970 --> 00:56:48,160 appear on their website for up to six 1479 00:56:52,710 --> 00:56:50,980 months so a consumer searching the web 1480 00:56:55,290 --> 00:56:52,720 has little chance of knowing that the 1481 00:56:57,090 --> 00:56:55,300 product is making false claims now this 1482 00:56:59,970 --> 00:56:57,100 black hole where TGA complaints 1483 00:57:02,040 --> 00:56:59,980 disappear was covered by ABC's late line 1484 00:57:04,710 --> 00:57:02,050 program earlier this year with respect 1485 00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:04,720 to a homeopathy website the claim they 1486 00:57:09,570 --> 00:57:07,050 could cure cancer and AIDS with water 1487 00:57:11,790 --> 00:57:09,580 when the story broke the owner of the 1488 00:57:14,130 --> 00:57:11,800 website not only continued to ignore the 1489 00:57:15,900 --> 00:57:14,140 sanctions but jumped the shark by 1490 00:57:17,190 --> 00:57:15,910 publishing a response to the story 1491 00:57:18,990 --> 00:57:17,200 replete with 1492 00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:19,000 dozens of links which was supposed to 1493 00:57:23,490 --> 00:57:21,010 justify why their claims were correct 1494 00:57:25,319 --> 00:57:23,500 one would hope that the review currently 1495 00:57:28,230 --> 00:57:25,329 up for public comment will address and 1496 00:57:30,540 --> 00:57:28,240 correct some of these issues as it 1497 00:57:32,370 --> 00:57:30,550 stands the burden is on the consumer to 1498 00:57:35,130 --> 00:57:32,380 determine whether a product works or not 1499 00:57:37,140 --> 00:57:35,140 as an official-looking austell number is 1500 00:57:40,470 --> 00:57:37,150 apparently no guarantee that the product 1501 00:57:42,210 --> 00:57:40,480 does what it claims although some of the 1502 00:57:44,849 --> 00:57:42,220 products removed in the recent review 1503 00:57:46,770 --> 00:57:44,859 will remove for only minor reasons how 1504 00:57:48,450 --> 00:57:46,780 the consumer is meant to differentiate 1505 00:57:50,130 --> 00:57:48,460 between the wrong type face on the 1506 00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:50,140 bottle or whether the product actually 1507 00:57:55,589 --> 00:57:53,770 does what it says is not knowing perhaps 1508 00:57:58,020 --> 00:57:55,599 the TGA might like to improve their 1509 00:58:01,500 --> 00:57:58,030 transparency in this case by telling us 1510 00:58:03,630 --> 00:58:01,510 which products were removed and why so 1511 00:58:05,339 --> 00:58:03,640 if the TGA can't guarantee us that these 1512 00:58:07,500 --> 00:58:05,349 products that they've listed actually 1513 00:58:10,260 --> 00:58:07,510 work the next best thing would be to ask 1514 00:58:12,810 --> 00:58:10,270 a pharmacist which is where many of 1515 00:58:15,270 --> 00:58:12,820 these products end up eventually but 1516 00:58:17,970 --> 00:58:15,280 from my limited experience this exercise 1517 00:58:19,650 --> 00:58:17,980 can also be hit and miss as I found out 1518 00:58:21,930 --> 00:58:19,660 when I've asked pharmacists about 1519 00:58:25,260 --> 00:58:21,940 homeopathy in several pharmacies across 1520 00:58:27,390 --> 00:58:25,270 Sydney some have told myself and Richard 1521 00:58:29,750 --> 00:58:27,400 Saunders that it's herbal others don't 1522 00:58:33,180 --> 00:58:29,760 know what it is and very few actually 1523 00:58:35,250 --> 00:58:33,190 understand what homeopathy is so if you 1524 00:58:38,579 --> 00:58:35,260 are in Australia you can submit comment 1525 00:58:41,099 --> 00:58:38,589 to the TGA review by februari 11 2011 1526 00:58:42,690 --> 00:58:41,109 the panel are asking for submissions 1527 00:58:44,599 --> 00:58:42,700 from health professionals and the 1528 00:58:46,770 --> 00:58:44,609 general public on several topics 1529 00:58:49,020 --> 00:58:46,780 including where it could have been 1530 00:58:50,819 --> 00:58:49,030 useful for you to have had access to 1531 00:58:53,730 --> 00:58:50,829 better information about your medicine 1532 00:58:55,170 --> 00:58:53,740 supplement or device and how you would 1533 00:58:56,940 --> 00:58:55,180 like to have access to that information 1534 00:58:59,099 --> 00:58:56,950 whether through your pharmacist or 1535 00:59:01,020 --> 00:58:59,109 through the internet I've put all the 1536 00:59:03,750 --> 00:59:01,030 information about how you can find the 1537 00:59:06,930 --> 00:59:03,760 websites and make comment on my blog at 1538 00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:06,940 skeptics book calm happy new year to all 1539 00:59:11,069 --> 00:59:08,650 my listeners and thanks for all the 1540 00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:11,079 feedback in 2010 and until next time 1541 00:59:28,550 --> 00:59:24,589 rational capital the podcast for science 1542 00:59:30,050 --> 00:59:28,560 and skepticism in and about Canberra say 1543 00:59:37,130 --> 00:59:30,060 it like you mean it there's nothing 1544 00:59:50,380 --> 00:59:37,140 magical miraculous about that find out 1545 00:59:54,279 --> 00:59:52,779 thank you for downloading the skeptic 1546 00:59:56,890 --> 00:59:54,289 zone on the next show we've got another 1547 01:00:00,190 --> 00:59:56,900 surprise guest host and even more great 1548 01:00:02,049 --> 01:00:00,200 interviews from Tam Australia I want to 1549 01:00:05,470 --> 01:00:02,059 share a little bit of news about my new 1550 01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:05,480 book skepp tied three pirates pyramids 1551 01:00:10,140 --> 01:00:07,970 and papyrus it will be available 1552 01:00:12,549 --> 01:00:10,150 sometime in january two thousand eleven 1553 01:00:14,859 --> 01:00:12,559 should be available to Australian buyers 1554 01:00:18,130 --> 01:00:14,869 hopefully the end of January possibly 1555 01:00:21,940 --> 01:00:18,140 februari you can get that on Sceptile 1556 01:00:24,279 --> 01:00:21,950 calm it is 50 chapters based on selected 1557 01:00:26,259 --> 01:00:24,289 sceptile episodes and adapted for print 1558 01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:26,269 it makes a great gift for people who 1559 01:00:30,849 --> 01:00:28,010 don't listen to podcasts which is most 1560 01:00:33,609 --> 01:00:30,859 people check it out pirates pyramids and 1561 01:00:34,990 --> 01:00:33,619 papyrus some very cool topics I think 1562 01:00:36,970 --> 01:00:35,000 it's approachable for anyone it's a 1563 01:00:39,519 --> 01:00:36,980 great introduction to anyone that you 1564 01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:39,529 want to ease into the idea of skepticism 1565 01:00:43,210 --> 01:00:41,210 I'm also trying something a little bit 1566 01:00:46,630 --> 01:00:43,220 new in 2011 I'm trying to do 1567 01:00:50,140 --> 01:00:46,640 crowdfunding for in fact video episodes 1568 01:00:51,700 --> 01:00:50,150 my in fact video series is also based on 1569 01:00:53,859 --> 01:00:51,710 selected scaphoid episodes their 1570 01:00:56,740 --> 01:00:53,869 condensed to about 3 minutes ideal for 1571 01:00:58,450 --> 01:00:56,750 web video there are suited for general 1572 01:01:00,099 --> 01:00:58,460 audiences and again it's the kind of 1573 01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:00,109 thing where it's it's trying to be an 1574 01:01:04,029 --> 01:01:01,970 introduction to skepticism for people 1575 01:01:05,799 --> 01:01:04,039 who don't know anything about it and 1576 01:01:08,009 --> 01:01:05,809 it's designed to be approachable and 1577 01:01:11,289 --> 01:01:08,019 friendly for for any audience 1578 01:01:13,809 --> 01:01:11,299 crowdfunding is where people can come to 1579 01:01:15,430 --> 01:01:13,819 a website and pledge money to say hey 1580 01:01:17,319 --> 01:01:15,440 I'll give you five bucks I'll give you 1581 01:01:19,660 --> 01:01:17,329 500 bucks whatever and if it reads 1582 01:01:21,039 --> 01:01:19,670 reaches a certain threshold then the 1583 01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:21,049 credit cards are actually charged the 1584 01:01:24,249 --> 01:01:22,490 money goes into the production of each 1585 01:01:25,569 --> 01:01:24,259 episode if it doesn't reach the 1586 01:01:28,299 --> 01:01:25,579 threshold then nobody gets charged 1587 01:01:30,519 --> 01:01:28,309 anything so far as I know don't quote me 1588 01:01:34,599 --> 01:01:30,529 on that anyway you can get information 1589 01:01:36,819 --> 01:01:34,609 on that at in fact video.com check it 1590 01:01:38,710 --> 01:01:36,829 out I would love to get your support as 1591 01:01:42,430 --> 01:01:38,720 for me right now I'm going back to 1592 01:01:46,029 --> 01:01:42,440 working on the sceptile podcast Sceptile 1593 01:01:48,549 --> 01:01:46,039 calm subscribe to it on itunes working 1594 01:01:50,589 --> 01:01:48,559 on some very cool new episodes for 2011 1595 01:01:52,779 --> 01:01:50,599 so thank you very much this has been a 1596 01:01:54,849 --> 01:01:52,789 lot of fun this is brian dunning signing 1597 01:01:57,759 --> 01:01:54,859 off from Laguna Niguel California and 1598 01:02:01,089 --> 01:01:57,769 wishing all skeptics own and Vince kept 1599 01:02:06,479 --> 01:02:01,099 I'd listeners a happy and safe 2011 1600 01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:08,890 you've been listening to the skeptic 1601 01:02:16,690 --> 01:02:12,890 zone visit our website at www scripting 1602 01:02:19,430 --> 01:02:16,700 zoomtv for comments contacts and extra 1603 01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:19,440 video reports